I should have said something (bad DR story)

[Ninster]

Last night low-level DR threw my dragoon into Thousand Maws of Totorak. The very first thing I read in party chat before the dungeon started was "I'm new." Ok, cool. I've noticed it seems like a lot of the community is jaded towards new players (after having many not listen at all), but I look at this as an opportunity to be helpful and maybe get one more to stick around.

Anyway, there's me (DRG), the new guy (ARC), the healer (CNJ), and the tank (can't recall, but he too was jobless). No sooner than we get to one of the early side rooms do I see two map achievement notices pop up. So it looks like I'm running with a fairly new group all around.

Throughout I was noticing several things about the healer: he pulled nearly every single group ahead of the tank (he was leading the group most of the time), and he abused Fluid Aura (I know this topic's been around), making both me and the tank chase mobs. Once he leveled to 26 I noticed he'd start sleeping mobs, even when it made no sense (I can't recall exactly, but I THINK CNJs get Repose at that level?). Boss fights the healer resorted to using Medica to top everyone off before curing the tank. At several points I really wanted to speak up and try to get him to correct some of these things, but I didn't want to be the killjoy of the group.

The straw that broke the camels back for me was when we got to Graffias. The cutscene starts playing, I skip, and no sooner than that I watch as either the healer or the tank (couldn't tell which one) dropped off and we got sucked into the arena while the ARC was still in the cutscene. Naturally, the ARC got locked out. At this point I half wanted to just afk the fight so we'd wipe so the ARC could join us, but again... I really don't want to be the killjoy. Anyway, the fight was slow but otherwise went okay with just 3 of us. At the end my LB got interrupted with the healer's LB and afterward he explained he ran out of MP. It was at this point I had something typed out but the healer had already left the instance. My commend went to the ARC (while the tank was doing the best he can with the healer rushing things for no reason, this was a sympathy commendation, I guess).

I know this is rather typical, but is there anything I could've said that WOULDN'T make me sound like a killjoy? I'm not the best with words, but I really want to help. I'm sure the healer wasn't trolling, just really really inexperienced and misguided. Furthermore, does trying to help cause more trouble than letting things go, especially when at this level dungeons aren't very punishing?

[Bixby]

"Hey, <character name not their role for the love of god don't start out being impersonal if you want to actually get through to someone>, would you mind a little advice?"

From there just try to remember how you felt as a newbie and try to word things in the way you'd want to hear them. Speak of the advantages of doing things the way you're advising, instead of just flat "demands" or talking about the disadvantages of their way ("If you let the tank engage the enemies himself he'll have an easier time keeping them under control."). Whether it causes trouble or not depends on the other person's attitude. If it causes trouble, whatever, loldungeondrama. Keep calm yourself and let it slide. If it doesn't huzzah.

[EricCartmenez]

Agree with Bixby. Be helpful, but not commanding. "Hey Erica, you will use less MP in the future if you..." or "Folks, the dungeons close people out within 15 seconds of the start of the fight, so please wait until everyone is done viewing the cut scene before starting boss fights." Not everyone knows this. Heck, I was like level 30 before I went into a dungeon. My buddy kept saying, "You're too low level to enter the dungeon", but he didn't tell me which one! I didn't know about the story and I was just running around doing quests, not paying attention to whether or not they were story line. If anyone sees me in a dungeon, I appreciate feedback of any kind. I'm leveling an Archanist, and of course I typically roulette the SCH vs SMN because I get in faster. That said, I'm still learning the SCH style of healing vs SMN. Just today, I was in a dungeon and the healer told the ARC to use their blue pet vs yellow. She did it right away. Yet last night, we said the same thing and the ARC acted like we didn't exist! You just never know. Plus there may be language barriers or people not paying attention to the chat window.

[Rex]

Most of the time when I try to give helpful advice, I get told off. LOL

I had a tank tell me "Don't tell me how to play my job, you're not a tank" And I was like "I have all 50s..I know how all the roles go." And he just sat there afk for like 20 minutes because he was offended. And he was new, btw. That's not an attitude you want to have when you're new to a game.


But I'm not going to go into too much detail with that story, lol. I'm just going to say regardless of how it makes you sound, if you feel it needs to be said, say it. Accompany it with some or :3 or whatever to make it seem like you're not trying to be a jerk, but you know it needs to be said.

Another thing is if you're friendly right in the beginning by throwing out a {Hello!} and a {Nice to meet you.} You'll make a good first impression so that maybe throughout the dungeon if you do feel you need to point something out, it won't look all that bad because you went out of your way to greet everyone in the beginning of the dungeon. I get a lot of people who don't say a damn word through the entire dungeon and ignore my hello, and then at the end will make some snarky smart ass comment to someone and then I'll insult them before they leave ;o because that's just rude.

So, yeah.

[Buff_Archer]

Here's my general approach... if I see someone who's new to a class I know well doing something outright counterproductive and I can tell they're really trying, I'll make a suggestion.

- Example a new Bard in Qarn was mainly Quick Nocking everything, no straight shot or dot's. So when party paused before a boss I said- Hey mind if I make a quick suggestion that might make life easier for you? And he was like sure so I told him having straight shot up, then Venom/Wind bite to start with made his attacks more effective overall. He was receptive to the advice and started doing that, I told him he was doing great and he got a commendation from me. I didn't want the whole party to have to listen to me explain the reasons behind it so I told him if he had any questions for me about it just to hang around with me after the final boss.
- A different example though a Bard had Ballad up the entire time and I said- oh btw you left Ballad up thought I'd let you know so you don't waste your MP/DPS. He was like I know, I like to keep it up so my Healer can use Holy all they need to. This was throughout an entire lvl 50 dungeon, not a special phase of a boss/primal fight. While I completely disagree I figured a dungeon run was not the time to debate something like that and hold everyone up so I just said 'Oh ok.' and kept going- I knew they had their opinion and I had mine, and they weren't causing us to wipe, so everything stayed friendly.
- In Titan HM roulette (once it got easy for most of the playerbase) I noticed a Bard got OSK'd on every type of bomb, they said it was lag but I could tell they were new it, and after a wipe and weakness was gone on second attempt, I saw how low their HP was and how undergeared they were relative to the dungeon... they had like 3k HP at the most. Second attempt, bomb killed him, ppl in key roles rage quit. I said- it's clearly over so no point refilling party, if you want I'll hang back and tell you how to avoid bombs. He and another player stayed, he said he was after his relic and I told him- I know you're excited to get it, but without better gear this will just keep happening because the combined stats on your gear makes a much bigger difference than an upgrade to just one item, and showed how our HP difference (and I was low i90's at best vs speaking from perspective of i100+ player) was big enough I could survive a minor mistake, etc. but almost anything there would OSK him etc etc. Told him how to gear up- he hadn't unlocked CT, had no Myth gear, and this was soon after Myth was uncapped. He was grateful for the advice, not sure how much of it he took but my main point here is I gave him the opportunity to get advice from me after it was over... he could have left or said 'No thanks I got it' if he didn't want it, and I don't want to spend my time helping people who don't want help anyway. And 5 other ppl from roulette didn't have to listen to me say what they already knew, since he needed more advice than just 30 sec's worth.
- One WHM kept wiping is in Garuda story mode, she would run out from the column when it was time to hide, and stand right next to it causing AOE damage otherwise. Me, tank, other DPS trying to explain because she was wiping us and she was insisting she was right and that was how to do it (she had never completed it before). We even put an alliance mark showing her where to stand. After third wipe the tank took a turn at telling her about the columns and she interrupted him with 'Just pull.' I'm like 'Just pull!? Why bother if you're not going to take anyone's advice and wipe us the same way as the last three times we might as well Vote Abandon'. She managed to stay alive somehow and we barely got it that time. And that is one reason why I don't bother giving advice to people who don't want it... if it comes to it that's why we have Vote Abandon.

With the WHM referred to in the OP though they sound like someone who probably didn't want to learn, or needed way more advice than could be given in the middle of a dungeon, so my examples above are more about how I try and help those who do without holding the party back or sounding bossy. Everything is situational though.

Oh yeah finally got my Gold Magitek Mount yesterday. Earned like 80-90% of it as a DPS.

[IndigoHawk]

Referring to people by role in df is fine. I don't know them and won't see them again. Either role or name is fine and not offensive.

It's hard to give advice without being a killjoy. The run sounds a little worse than average for inexperienced players. Abilities like Fluid Aura and sleep are borderline useless / highly situational. However early on players think they should use those abilities because they just got them. I try to work around people until they learn.

I probably wouldn't have said much either, although I would have told them to wait for people before starting boss fights. I would have tried to convince the group to wipe so the ARC could join. "Let's wipe so everyone can fight".

Otherwise if something needs to be said, say it politely, but don't argue. "Please let the tank pull", "Please don't sleep so I can aoe". Whatever it is, keep it simple, don't debate, and pick only one or two things to advise. And if they don't change, work around them in easy dungeons.

[PetiteMalFleur]

I wouldn't have said anything in that low level dungeon unless we were dying. That healer will figure it out.

[Synestr]

Normally when I see that message from a player, I get excited for them. Let em know I have been here before and if they have any questions speak up. I also let them know that from time to time I might throw out some strategem, advise or constructive crits if needed. It is good to see the new players come in. It is also important for us as "vets" to work with them. If we don't speak up and give them advise, warranted or welcomed or not, then they continue play "blind". Even if you mention to a new DRG, hey you should Heavy Thrust at the start of every fight for your dps bonus and the reply you get is "I know"...but you have yet to see them do it, well then at least you said something. You made an attempt to mentor someone. Cause there are those times where the response is "what do you mean?", then you can turn the light on for them and have added to the future success of not only the player but yourself, never know when you will run into them again.

Just my 2g

Syn

[ruskie]

I love having new people in the party... even full new parties. Most of them will be much more pleasant than the old and crusty guard. I will often leave them to discvore things on their own unless they want to know more. And I will ask someone if I see something that they are doing something oddly. I generally have access to people that are good with specific jobs and I can pool their knowledge to figure out if I can suggest something better.

I will generally ask people why they are doing something and then suggest an alteranitev. The biggest is probably fresh tanks that don't yet understand AOE threat - so the inital sugestion is spam flash if needed or use overpower a couple of times.