Please reconsider stance on blue mage

[Tupsi]

Ragnarok, while not the shining example of "balance" did it perfectly - Some classes were insane to play and some were your basic ARR rotation.

[NyneAlexander]

I love blue mage but do you guys really want to go around casting "Heavy" on everything?

[Alukah]

snip

The thing is they want to avoid complexity, that's why I'm thinking if it ever happens blue mage will end up being three different jobs with restricted skills, though skills would still have to be learned manually. By using the job system they can adapt it to the holy trinity, all tanking and healing skills would require the relevant job crystal equipped and your role would be determined by the job, but then this class would be as close to a classic blue mage as our summoner is to a classic summoner (close to nothing in common).

Who knows, they could drop this "it would be difficult for new players" nonsense with 4.0, but I don't see it happening anytime before that.

[LineageRazor]

Folks - including Yoshi-P - need to leave the FFXI concept of Blue Mage behind. Blue Mage as it existed in FFXI would be too great a departure from the way classes/jobs are structured in this game. For that matter, Blue Mage as it existed was a pretty huge departure from Blue Mage as it existed in previous FF games, as well; with few exeptions, Blue Mages in previous FF games were solidly mage-type classes, using staves and wands and casting monster spells as though they were standard nukes, heals, and status spells.

Blue Mage can still work in the setting of FFXIV, but I think it would wind up a lot closer to the classic versions of Blue Mage than do the sword-wielding, front-line fighter we knew in FFXI. Here are some of the key departures I'd forsee:

- Learning Blue Magic would not be based on chance. FFXI was the first game to introduce a "random chance to learn" aspect to learning Blue Magic, and I don't think it's a system ANYONE much enjoyed. If you're hit with the spell (or maybe just if you witness it, for buffs and cures), you learn it, end of story. There would need to be restrictions of some kind to prevent Blue Mages from learning spells too early, though - probably a level restriction.

- Blue Mages will not have hundreds of spells to choose from as they did in FFXI. Blue Mages will have five spells (with more added as the level cap increases) - or possibly more, if they have a base class that also learns spells (call it "Mimicker" or "Morpher" or "Mime" or something). The point being, Blue Mage spells will take up ability slots, not be a seperate menu of their own. While SMNs DO, technically, have a seperate menu for pet abilities to possibly set a precedent, even there the pets only have three usable abilities (the fourth being an uncontrollable automatic ability) and the rest being movement and placement controls. I see this as an apples-and-oranges comparison to giving BLUs a full-on spell menu, and that the seperate menu will be reserved solely for pet jobs.

- To prevent cases where players are ostracized for not learning certain spells, the solution is obvious: force them to learn the spells before they progress. A level 50 Blue Mage without their spells would be just as gimp as a level 50 SMN using Carbuncle and Ifrit because they skipped most of their job quests. Most likely, I anticipate job quests (and maybe class quests) containing goals like "Fight Blood Bats until they use Blood Drain". In some cases, you might have instanced fights against mobs that would normally be beyond your level - like maybe a level 35 fight against a scaled-down Morbol to learn Bad Breath (with support NPCs to save you when the beast finally does hose you down with debuffs!), when you'd normally be far too weak to face normal mobs of that type.

- A Blue Mage will be a DPS class, for the simple reason that there's few if any abilities used by monsters in this game that are heals or buffs. This could change, of course, if SE were bound and determined to get BLU into a tank or healer role (they could add new monsters with tanky or healerish abilities), but for now if a Blue Mage were to learn spells, they would end up with an arsenal of attacks and debuffs. Front-line DPS or back-line DPS, will likely depend on what weapon SE chooses to give them.

So, a decent concept that would fit in the scope of FFXIV:

The player as a level 1 Mimicker. As part of the level 1 class quest, in addition to killing three each of three different mobs, the quest can't be completed until one of the mobs actually uses a learnable spell - say, Ladybug's Bombadier attack. Witnessing this attack even once is enough to learn it.

At each level where a player would normally learn an ability automatically (level 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, etc), the Mimicker unlocks the ability to learn an ability from a monster. Each class quest will either not be unlockable until a MIM learns all the spells up to that point, or learning the spells will be a requirement for completing that quest.

At level 30, the Blue Mage job can be unlocked. The Job Abilities gained as a BLU will either be abilities to enhance blue magic usage, or may be special blue magic only learnable through job quest instanced battles. Once again, no job quest can be completed until the requisite spells leading up to that level have all been learned.

That's just one concept for how a Blue Mage could comforatbly fit into the framework FFXIV has provided. There are certainly others.

[Tupsi]

Folks - including Yoshi-P - need to leave the FFXI concept of Blue Mage behind. .

It's the exact same system as XIV/ARR, hence why it's brought up - It's also the system for Blue Mage that works the best given the limitations of this game's class/job system.

Blue Mage as it existed in FFXI would be too great a departure from the way classes/jobs are structured in this game

If you actually played it, you would realize picking your spells fits in with this game's system much more than "stances", hence why Yoshi P said the biggest challenge is where Blue Mage would fit, because Blue Mage in almost every FF game it existed including XI can shift between roles, it did damage, it had the most amazing buffs and heals of the game they existed in (FFVII excluded) and could take a hit much better than other mages.

[Kerii]

Just a bit of a guess... BLUM would arc off Conjurer and sub Thaumaturge. The "logic" would be that by understanding all of the elements and aspects of nature you are able to learn skills from monsters. Rather than roaming the world and fighting monsters you'd likely have a fixed set of instances where "Iconic" monsters would be fought allowing you to learn a handful of moves that would end up a sort of "Charm and Mimic" role. This would be a nice take on the style as it would work in context of the game and make sense from a lore perspective.

(I'm sorry if I'm late here, or reiterating things that have already been said.)

(This isn't exactly on topic, but REDM would have to work slightly differently from the classical design as well. That is, they'd come from Thaumaturge and be more focused on reducing the destructive aspects of black magic. Turning to conjury for it's understanding of the elements (sub job) they'd learn to use both sets of skills (not all), at the cost of losing the most powerful skills of both jobs. These are just guesses based on how /all the other jobs/ currently work and the idea that they need to be simple enough to play, but practical enough that they won't overpower other roles.)

[Kayo]

Op: Please explain how Blue Mage would work in FFXIV please?

Sincerely Curious.

Honestly the biggest difference between job and class are the few abilities you get every 5 levels after level 30. I dont see what would be so hard about giving players a job with 5 more abilities taken from mobs in Eorzea. They can throw it in with ARC which already has an inclination to study/learn things about the world or even a THM. They can learn abilities like Bad Breath from the Malboro dudes (though id nerf it a little) or even Shatter from the Coblyn(?). There are many abilities out there which im sure some players would love to use. They can even make it so you can customize which abilities you can use to make the job more diverse and customizable ... something this game is sorely lacking in.

[Souljacker]

Just a bit of a guess... BLUM would arc off Conjurer and sub Thaumaturge.

Or they could leave that ridiculous system behind and make blue mage its own job from 1-cap, like all the jobs should be. They can leave unlock requirements, but this arcing off base classes that we never ever use again (maybe I'll see the odd marauder in pvp) needs to go away.

Aside from that, I think they are doing the exact opposite of what they intended with designing things so that players aren't confused. I've been a fan of black mage for time out of mind, and it was especially confusing to me to find that the AOE spells are not called -aga, they are just numbered. I agree with the OP - the stance of not doing something in the classic Final Fantasy way including all associated complexity is a bad direction to go in.

Have a little artistic integrity, SE. Not everything needs to be designed for the lowest common denominator.

[LineageRazor]

It's the exact same system as XIV/ARR, hence why it's brought up - It's also the system for Blue Mage that works the best given the limitations of this game's class/job system.

Exact same system...? I seriously have no idea what you mean by this. Class system, playstyle, pacing, monster mechanics - pretty much EVERYTHING in this game is completely unlike FFXI. Which is fine - we don't need a clone of an existing game, when we still have the option to go and play that game. Which we do, and which I do.

If you actually played it, you would realize picking your spells fits in with this game's system much more than "stances", hence why Yoshi P said the biggest challenge is where Blue Mage would fit, because Blue Mage in almost every FF game it existed including XI can shift between roles, it did damage, it had the most amazing buffs and heals of the game they existed in (FFVII excluded) and could take a hit much better than other mages.

If I actually played it? BLU 99, still working on my ilvl 119 class-specific gear upgrades. Just learned Yumcax's "Uproot" spell - man, those WKR spells are hard to get. >_< Trust me, I have a VERY keen grasp on how BLU works in FFXI, and that is why I feel qualified in saying that it, as it exists in FFXI, would not fit into FFXIV.

I never said anything about stances, so not sure what you meant by that. You sure you weren't responding to someone else's post? As for "shifting between roles", no BLU in ANY FF game ever did that. They typically had an assortment of healing, buffing, nuking, and debuffing spells, but those spells were all available at all times (as long as you had actually learned them). No stance shifting was required.

[Souljacker]

No stance shifting was required.

As I recall, and I could be wrong, you could only slot a specific number of spells at any given time. That's probably what he meant by "stance shuffling" - you slot the spells that are appropriate for your role in the party.

And just because something wouldn't fit into the way XIV is structure right now doesn't mean YoshiP won't wake up tomorrow and realize that the FF playerbase is comfortable with and embraces the idea of support roles and classes. I hold out hope for getting real support classes again - Red mage and Bard being at the top of my list.