Something you may or may not have known...

[Scootaloo]

Please refrain from troll posts,flaming, and potshots in this thread. It is meant to be a MATURE discussion.

WoW actually used to be challenging and enjoyable to play...then came the burning crusade. An expansion created solely based on the feedback from their forums which at the time(and still does)consisted of whiners and complainers screaming about the content being "Too hard" or "taking too long". Nearly every expansion,patch, and update to WoW came as the result of these whiners and complainers.

I myself played WoW for years, hoping the challenge would return... it didn't and I left shortly after WOTLK was released.

Fast forward about 5(6?)expansions later and I hear rumors all over and WoW is dying and the players are flocking to FFXIV during the Phase 3 Beta. Heck, they were leaving WoW shortly after that phoenix expansion(no idea what the name of it was) with the werewolves and goblin races were added already.


"How does this even relate remotely to FFXIV?" you may ask?

Yoshi-P has stated on a number of occasions that he's LISTENING to the input of players on the forums.

Now let me ask you something?

If he listens to the input of the players on the forums and most of the posts consist of players whining and complaining about ANY type of challenge put into the game, what do you think is going to happen?(and don't even try to argue it doesn't when there's literally 50+ threads already, complaining about Atma,coils, and the EX primal fights popping up in the last 3 weeks.)

You guessed it, FFXIV will be doomed to the same fate as WoW. Never challenging, always catering to the whiners and complainers and then just like WoW, will begin to lose its player base, release countless expansions in desperate hope of getting them back, and then just like WoW is currently, be sitting on its deathbed with the devs asking themselves: "where did we go wrong?"

My point of this thread is this:

Instead of whining and complaining about every new "challenging" thing that comes along, why don't we instead provide suggestions and creditable feedback that doesn't consist of "nerf this!" Or "Change this so we can do that easier!" on current content and suggest newer content?

Thoughts, opinions, comments?

[Brine_Gildchaff]

I think for starters that the devs aren't going to listen to the type of person that just whines and screams "nerf" like it's the new "omlette du fromage". They're going to listen to the people who actually put stuff up. I mean, look at the threads that the GMs and CMs actually post in beyond "working as intended, no plans to change it at this time". They're stuff like the long-running "is early pulling/hunt resetting actionable?" thread where Enkrateia chimed in on quite a number of occasions in response to players who'd actually put forth meaningful debate. Also keep in mind: the devs don't directly see this, as a number of them don't speak English well enough. Yoshida himself to my understanding pretty much only speaks Japanese (I distinctly remember him having an interpreter in one stream I saw). What they see is what the CMs like Bayohne deem actually relevant complaints and issues and translate for the devs to see.

[Scootaloo]

Well if the English forums have these types of threads, I can just imagine the amount of Japanese threads doing the exact same thing and lets not forget google translate posters. I wouldn't put it past someone(or EVERYONE for that matter) who was determined enough to make their complaints that "this is too hard!" known by throwing their post into google translate and posting it into the Japanese forums.

[Obysuca]

The problem with suggesting new content, from what I realized on other mmos and what quite a few people have said, is that if it's a really good idea, chances are the company won't use said idea because something about having to share income with said person who came up with the idea. Which is why most take some ideas, but completely change it so it's only remotely like what players suggested.

Tbh, it'd be kind of stupid if XIV kept giving in to whiners all the time, killing off their playerbase. I'm going to say it and I know people who have never played XI or gave up because it was too hard will come in here, quote this and proceed to try to argue the crap out of it, but seeing as how XI's lasted for 12+ years and still making money, you'd think SE would have taken more ideas from it, rather than from mmos that die in 1-2 years from trying to copy the WoW model.

Remember Wildstar? What's Wildstar? Exactly.

There's a reason XI and other older mmos have lasted as long as they have.

You guessed it, FFXIV will be doomed to the same fate as WoW. Never challenging, always catering to the whiners and complainers

Tbh, if I made a mmo and saw a bunch of whiners and complainers saying how stuff is "too hard" or "takes too much time" I'd have the biggest urge to just tell them to suck it up and learn to play lol Unless it was truly too hard, I'd make them deal with it >_>

[Anderism]

WoW isn't dying by any means, even if it doesn't have the amount of subs it peaked at back during Wrath. There are just a LOT more great MMOs coming out and providing the game with healthy competition, so people are leaving and finding games that suit their tastes better. I quit the game a year ago to come play this one but I still don't think it's dying and I think it still has a lot to offer people in terms of fun/gameplay.

As for challenging content... I think there are people who enjoy it, and people who don't. Final Fantasy XIV is meant to cater to both types of people and I think they've done a pretty good job with the extreme primals/coil and then the Labyrinth of the Ancients/Syrcus Tower content.

I don't think devs listen to "whining" as much as people want to believe it. They do gather large amounts of feedback and make tweaks based on what they think is best for their game. Of course the changes won't sit well with everyone, but there's not much that can be done about that. You can't make everyone happy when it comes to MMOs.

[Anatha]

Most of the complaints seem to stem from the fact that because of how encounters are designed, their difficulty cannot easily be addressed.

Meaning there's a whole group of players who can't complete obsolete content because no amount of gear or echo will ever make those encounters any easier, because they are full of instant kill mechanics.

I don't see people asking to have relevant content nerfed, I think you may be conflating things.

[zar]

WoW is dying because it's old. The End.

[Chihaya]

Well if the English forums have these types of threads, I can just imagine the amount of Japanese threads doing the exact same thing and lets not forget google translate posters. I wouldn't put it past someone(or EVERYONE for that matter) who was determined enough to make their complaints that "this is too hard!" known by throwing their post into google translate and posting it into the Japanese forums.

Why do you assume that? True that there are some QQ threads, but those type of threads are the extreme minority on JP forums.
Plz go take a look on forums and try out a JP server. Better if you can actually mix in with the JPs and not like some of the Tonberry/Masamune bunch that make no effort in communicating with the JP. You will find a lot of the content that people complain about being too hard - is something that you can clear easily in DF (not PF) on a JP data center.

[Teirshin]

Most of FFXIV is stupid, faceroll easy.

Its also grindy/boring as hell, which is my main issue.

Remove some grind, replace it with something thats a challenge and more interactive and I'd be fine with that.

This game is already so easy a hamster with a micro mouse and keyboard could raid coil and do pretty well.

[Shougun]

There are arguments to the exact opposite and proofs too. Not listening to players creating train wrecks worse than listening to your players, you can check the birth of this game for that.

Of course the devs should be careful but I don't think "not listening" is the in the best interest of anyone, dev or player.