Please reconsider phase changes that heavily disadvantage players

[Alukah]

I get needing to save cooldowns; I get needing to choose targets to burst; I get having to watch aggro; I don't understand why any part of the fight should require people to stand around doing nothing in order to not wipe. . .

You're wasting your time here, some of these people are used to XI's trash combat system, where tanks had no proper tanking tools and people had to sit around to not get aggro.

[Edli]

Most groups don't have the option to push that hard.

Then that's their problem.

See you say high DPS is getting punished but I can say slow DPS is getting punished for not pushing fast enough so the second bee doesn't spawn. It's all a matter of how you look at it. That's why I said that pushing phases at the wrong time is what punishes you not neccesarly only high DPS because if your group really had high DPS you wouldn't even have this problem.

[SarcasmMisser]

Straight up if you are still getting a second honey when most people are in i110 your DPS is bad and you are getting punished for bad DPS not good DPS. I have not seen a second honey for at least 4 months. Same with t7 we just go full throttle and find that the phasing works out fine.

[Tupsi]

The problem isn't paying attention and dodging things, the problem is being punished for doing something to well.

Nope - This is the problem with purely scripted encounters that reacts purely on a script rather than some randomization or letting the AI decide "for itself" rather than scripted %.

You're wasting your time here, some of these people are used to XI's trash combat system, where tanks had no proper tanking tool

Yeah, you never played XI this pretty much confirms it lol. The tanking and enmity system in XI was quite different, some tools weren't even tank specific but a party effort as well, e.g Thief SATA early days, Scholar's enmity control spells, Paladin's Weaponskills, Reprisal, and (depending on content), shadows/provoke. Ninja wise was their debuff spells and damage. Dancer wise was their survivability and heals. Blue Mage wise was their mitigation and damage.

In comparison XI had more tools than XIV does because no one else in your party can help you with tanking (making encounters not purely up to the tank or healer alone like it is in XIV, can't hold hate or cure? That's it.)

[Magis]

Yes, you are being punished for not playing your job right. Damage management is part of the job, knowing how to efficiently deliver max damage, but not so much that you overtake the tank in threat (4mans and the Death Dancers in T7 come to mind) or cause a phase change at the wrong time (T6, T7). This has been the basic definition in MMOs since the beginning, including WoW. I guess this is the complainers first MMO?

You're wasting your time here, some of these people are used to XI's trash combat system, where tanks had no proper tanking tools and people had to sit around to not get aggro.

Wut. Ok, you do know that was a thing in WoW too before Blizz made it impossible to take aggro off a tank cause "threat management" was toooooo haaaaaard, right? Case in point: Onyxia (the 40 man). During phase 2 she flew around so only range DPS could attack her. This caused the tank to lose threat and DPS to overtake, so when she landed in phase 3, players had to slow down or stop dps in general so the tank could retake aggro.

In BWL, Vaelastrasz's whole strategy was a balancing act between threat management and DPS. Players on the top of the hate list (besides tanks) would get "Burning Adrenalin" which gave them instant cast on all abilities as well as a damage buff, easily out aggroing the tank. They could go balls out, but then cause the boss to aggro them and wipe the raid. So they had to watch threat to make sure they didn't over aggro.

But I guess that game too had a "trashy system", right?

[Fendred]

My personal opinion is that this entire problem (which is a recurring theme going back to 2.0), is because they decided to replace the party responsibilities that damage dealers and controllers usually have with an increased complexity to their rotations and positioning. It forces the damage dealers to pay more attention to their action bars and footing than to the actual battlefield, which is in stark contrast to when aggro management, crowd control, and situational abilities are emphasized.

That can seem like an odd thing to say, since wouldn't paying attention to your position be paying attention to the battlefield? But in practice, paying attention to the battlefield means keeping track of a lot of different things outside a given player. I'm equally skilled at playing scholar, paladin, warrior, and monk, but the monk gives me noticeably more trouble than the other three when it comes to doing Rafflasia.

In short, don't put all the blame on the damage dealers when the system emphasizes complicating their basic function in place of strategy. It's not that they're impossible to play as the currently are, but when difficulty requires tight coordination it shows.

[Gilraen]

But that's the thing, damage isn't complicated. This game is so much easier to read enmity than XI ever was. There's that incredibly convenient 'red light, green light' icon in the enemy list that practically holds your hand in controlling personal enmity. If it's turns yellow you might want to start adding a second or two between rotation actions. Orange, might want to stop the rotation and let auto-attack hold you till it drops back to yellow or green. It's not that hard. In XI you had nothing to tell you when you were pulling hate except the mob's deathly gaze as it turned around. And yet, for all of XIV's tools, few seem to be able to do just that, control their enmity.

[Fendred]

But that's the thing, damage isn't complicated. This game is so much easier to read enmity than XI ever was. There's that incredibly convenient 'red light, green light' icon in the enemy list that practically holds your hand in controlling personal enmity. If it's turns yellow you might want to start adding a second or two between rotation actions. Orange, might want to stop the rotation and let auto-attack hold you till it drops back to yellow or green. It's not that hard. In XI you had nothing to tell you when you were pulling hate except the mob's deathly gaze as it turned around. And yet, for all of XIV's tools, noone seems to be able to do just that, control their enmity.

They aren't comparable. FFXI's combat system is much, much slower than FFXIV's. Faster cooldowns and more buttons to press means they will inevitably spend more of their time looking at their action bar than roles that do not have that disadvantage. Healing requires a player to be paying attention to other's health bars, but they don't need to press their keys in a specific pattern to max out healing. Tanks have simple rotations and focus almost entirely on the battlefield due to their responsibility. Damage dealers, on the other hand, are there to max out damage which requires increased focus on their own character and action bars. That will have an adverse effect on their performance as team coordination becomes more tight.

[Tupsi]

-Sip-

He's just attacking the game and people who played it like many here tend to. He's admitted to never playing it and just "reading" about it, because for example when you just "read about" FFXIV ARR you'll read it's the most amazing MMORPG to ever exist and has nothing but unique content, amazing itemization and fantastic battle encounters. But when you actually play it...you'll realize it's still steps behind XI and WoW in many areas when it takes steps forward in some.

Since XI and WoW/WoW Babies like ARR are completely different systems, it makes sense things flow differently, but ARR's system is actually "trash" compared to many other MMOs simply because the Armory system cornered the developers.

[Magis]

Since XI and WoW/WoW Babies like ARR are completely different systems, it makes sense things flow differently, but ARR's system is actually "trash" compared to many other MMOs simply because the Armory system cornered the developers.

I figured as much, since he doesn't sound like someone who'd know the combat system in XI. Also it's a dumb point saying tanks "didn't have the tools", it's just how the game was designed. ARR doesn't have a "I WIN" button that instantly kills all mobs in a 10meter radius, I guess it must be a dumb game for not giving you the proper tools.

I think the armoury "cornered" the devs cause it was turned into something that it wasn't meant to be. From what I heard, the original was built so you'd cross-class abilities to create a new "class", which got changed later into more rigid "jobs". If anything, it should have been redone from the ground up rather than slapped on ontop of a totally different foundation. What really made the problem worse was creating rigid lines between class roles and boxing yourself in with the trinity.