Keeping the game basic for new players?

[Dhex]

Short-sighted development and quick turn-around without a public test server means I can guarantee you at least one of the following things, if not all of them, will coincide with the release of Rogue and Ninja; it will not be well balanced, it will have at least one broken or useless skill, it will have at least one or two skills with a bug or unintended effect, it will have at least one useless cross-class ability, and it will be confusing for veterans and new players alike for a month or two until they straighten it out through patches and fixes; once those are done and people figure out how to use it - it will be "balanced".



"Keeping it basic" is code for "we're scared we'll make even more mistakes".

It has nothing to do with newer players.

Nothing at all.

I believe it.

Anyone who played 2.0-2.1 as a Warrior knows what I'm talking about~

[Eekiki]

I, too, have a problem with Yoshi's statement. At some point--and I would argue that point has already passed us--one has to say "Okay, the flow of new players has slowed enough that it's time to stop catering primarily to them." Think of the game as a bag of microwave popcorn. Leave it in the microwave too long trying to get those last few kernels to pop and you'll end up burning the rest of it and ruining the whole bag.

And I don't know how Yoshi gets the idea that the expansion is going to bring in a substantial influx of new players. What it will bring in is a bunch of players that aren't new, but got bored and moved to something else. And if the game is still same old same old they still won't have a reason to stick around.

"Keeping it basic" is code word for "we're scared we'll make even more mistakes".

It has nothing to do with newer players.

Nothing at all.

I believe it.

[Loki]

The fact that new players can lv up 1-50 in a week and have access to hl dungeons with bad gears and no experience by skipping 50% of the game doesn't help at all either imo.

Anyway some of us say that the game should teach each job better to players, come on the game won't show them how to use their brain, they have just to read skills descriptions and test it, or listening advices from others (when it's useful). We have very few skills, tutorials that no one read, guides on the net etc etc, if certain players are just lazy and don't care about the way they play, you can't blame SE for that ^^'

[Magis]

The fact that new players can lv up 1-50 in a week and have access to hl dungeons with bad gears and no experience by skipping 50% of the game doesn't help at all either imo.
Anyway some of us say that the game should teach each job better to players, come on the game won't show them how to use their brain, they have just to read skills descriptions and test it, or listening advices from others (when it's useful). We have very few skills, tutorials that no one read, guides on the net etc etc, if certain players are just lazy and don't care about the way they play, you can't blame SE for that ^^'

Well you can compare XIV in terms of XI with this one picture:



The tools needed for newbies to learn the game is ALREADY in place, it helps them learn the basics. Outside of that... players should learn from experience (the point of leveling from 1-max level) and their fellow players (sadly the DF and speed of combat in general stifles player communication outside of the <Hello!> and <Thanks for the party!> messages). As a bit of nostalgia, I did like XI's way of throwing you into the world to figure things out on your own. I didn't seem to mind it back then, probably because everything was new and full of wonder. Than again that is the case with most MMOs.

Stripping any depth or complexity to the game just makes it more boring, and is a poor excuse implying that newbies are too stupid to learn. The case is most people will learn given enough time, through experimentation and player interaction. This can be further helped by using quests and the like to teach players how to utilize their job correctly.

[Zarzak]

Don't forget that vanilla WoW and to a lesser extent TBC, would probably be considered "hardcore" now-a-days. Funny enough, those two games is where Blizzard saw the sharpest of their subscription gains, plateauing around Wrath, and then falling like mad after Cataclysm.

While the original 40 man raids were alright.

I can't support calling anything where the primary mode of leveling is "solo following yellow ! marks" a MMO. The simple fact that you can reach end game without ever communicating with another human being in a MULTIPLAYER game is the problem with today's MMOs.

That is without (to use the Southpark reference) "staying in the forest killing boars" aka killing stuff MANY levels below yourself for TERRIBLE amounts of experience and taking MANY MANY times longer than actual group play.

[Magis]

While the original 40 man raids were alright.

I can't support calling anything where the primary mode of leveling is "solo following yellow ! marks" a MMO. The simple fact that you can reach end game without ever communicating with another human being in a MULTIPLAYER game is the problem with today's MMOs.

That is without (to use the Southpark reference) "staying in the forest killing boars" aka killing stuff MANY levels below yourself for TERRIBLE amounts of experience and taking MANY MANY times longer than actual group play.

While it was easier than previous MMOs, it has no comparison to what exists now. The world was much more open back then. Players would be constantly exploring, fighting, questing, and just traveling through Azeroth. Leveling took time (though not as much as FFXI), giving players ample time to learn their class as skills came in. Elite mobs and even other players brought danger to the world (for anyone who remembers those damn sneak T-Rexes in Un'goro). Later on though, flying mounts let players skip most battles, leveling has been so nerfed you can buy max level characters, and everything became instant teleport like FFXIV is (which is probably where they got the idea from).

While you technically could level to 60 without talking to anyone, you'd have a very difficult time completing elite quests which required a party of at least 2-3 people, and you'd miss out on dungeon gear and quests. There was no LFR or LFG system, so player interaction was a must. Also it was all on your own server, so people knew each other to an extent. If you were a ninja looter, your name would be black marked, spread on the realm forum.

[Zarzak]

There was no LFR or LFG system, so player interaction was a must. Also it was all on your own server, so people knew each other to an extent. If you were a ninja looter, your name would be black marked, spread on the realm forum.

While the elite quests n such weren't necessary so wouldn't contradict what I said originally. You are right on this point. At least early on WoW still had SOME redeeming qualities (such as still putting some value on a reputation). But Blizzard took what was already a "baby's 1st MMO" and destroyed the whole MMO community. And are basically the sole reason trolls exist in MMOs. Prior to WoW the idea of a troll was pretty much unheard of in an MMO beyond the noob levels because they would never make it to high end.

[JimmyDean]

Too many of you associate simplicity with bad and complexity with good.

And why do you think that is? Maybe because its 2014 and we had simple already back when Atari was around.