Keeping the game basic for new players?

[Magis]

Lets focus on hardcore players and ignore newbies and filthy casuals.

Look how that worked out for wildstar.

A person can play casually and still want more complex and difficult content. How much time a person puts into the game has no bearing on the difficulty of content. There are "casuals" playing twice a week clearing coil. It's kind of sad that wanting a more complex system (and let's face it, the bar is pretty damn low in FFXIV), with difficult content is now considered "hardcore".

[MageBlack]

Tim Buckley did a great writeup about Wildstar which kind of illustrates the shift in player mentality. I will link to it here. I get that lots of people are crying out for hardcore content (not exactly the point of the OP but it ties together) but one thing this game is doing is taking the MMO genre outside of the traditional space of PC only. It's appealing to a whole other demographic.

People like my son who is 9yo. He is fully capable of playing and keeping up with me (he's level 50 now and we have been starting on end game content and getting his ilevel up) but only with the controller. The mouse and keyboard layout is a little overwhelming for him right now. He is no hardcore pro and his rotation could use some work but he's DPS and he does well enough. My wife is another one who is slowly learning to play. For the most part all she plays are games like Candy Crush, Bejeweled or once in a while Skylanders. Just like my son, she could never use the mouse and keyboard setup but can figure out the controller a little easier. As it is, the game is a little intimidating for her at times but it eases you in at a pace that seems to work well for her.

It seems that most people (posting on the forums) expect everyone who plays to be on the same level if skill that they are and if you arent on that level of skill, you shouldnt be playing. What a crummy way to look at it. I like the way that SE is handling this game, its something that is possible for people with little to no experience in MMO's or even games in general can pick up and give it a try. Who knows, people like my Wife and Son may become the next wave of hardcore MMO enthusiasts all because this one particular game was user-friendly enough to allow them that taste that got them hooked.

TL;DR
If your issue is the part you highlighted in bold because it "dumbs down the game" just remember that you are not the only type of player SE is targeting. There are other games coming out that may end up satisfying your needs if this game isnt cutting the mustard. This is but a single game in the Sea of MMO's Let it be it's own thing or at least offer ideas from within the parameters the devs are working within.

[Valtiel13]

Making something accessible and making something with depth is not mutually exclusive. I feel like the OP completely misrepresents the quoted statement. Making something easy to understand does NOT mean the same thing as making something easy or simple or devoid of depth.

I agree that this game isn't doing a great job at showing players the basics. Better quests for classes/jobs or something along the lines of WoW's proving grounds could be helpful.

[Shougun]

I think having /more/ job quests some being a requirement for progression in the end stream of content would be helpful. Some of the job quests teach but a lot of them are too easy to pass on knowledge indirectly (or too complex that the quest should just "ask" and directly teach the methods). The purpose here being players would be encouraged to go deeper, and then SE may design with a bit more leeway.

Can make them challange job quests that are fun and difficult and any of the very straining challenges would not be required for story mode. I know my rotations are not perfect on BLM but I've seen a lot of BLM who have no idea when or where to use their tier III spells, a quest could help them boost their dps so much (I help when I see it, and when they want the help - but again I'm not an expert either, perhaps SE could challenge and teach me.. I would honestly appreciate that).

Indirect teaching where possible but perhaps we need more teaching in general, and not the "press w to move forward" but alright 10 monsters in a coliseum all stronger than you, they will three shot you, you're a BLM - here are some tips, if you fail here are more tips, congratulations for being awesome here is " " (how to use sleep, lethargy, mana ward and wall, ect ect - can get funky with the objectives so long as they are sure teach). I think vanity gear would be cool reward but that might increase the cost of making these quests, perhaps then some other big payout giving encouragement for players to learn their class even if they have no plan of end game.

Also I really miss the ja, ga suffix XD.

[Zarzak]

You give your average modern day gamer too much credit.

Pretty much this.


I remember one of the quotes about why they took away our ability to check/uncheck quests in our log to show up on the hud was because "it confused people when their quest disappeared from the hud"

REALLY!? (for those who don't know until... phase 3 or 4. You could use the check boxes next to quests (like they ones they added in 2.1 but they were actually useful) to totally hide quests from your UI. Instead of the current system where if you have less than 4-5 quests you can't do anything about them showing up)

Also don't say "you can hide that UI element" it is also used as the timer/score board for every instance.

[Gilthas]

Too many of you associate simplicity with bad and complexity with good.

[Magis]

Pretty much this.


I remember one of the quotes about why they took away our ability to check/uncheck quests in our log to show up on the hud was because "it confused people when their quest disappeared from the hud"

REALLY!? (for those who don't know until... phase 3 or 4. You could use the check boxes next to quests (like they ones they added in 2.1 but they were actually useful) to totally hide quests from your UI. Instead of the current system where if you have less than 4-5 quests you can't do anything about them showing up)

Also don't say "you can hide that UI element" it is also used as the timer/score board for every instance.

Yeah, I recall that post. That's the bar that has been set, ugh. As an "alternative" they made the recommendation window... which is totally worthless. Thankfully the tracker returned, though it's kind of dumb that the tracker will always track quests, I'd rather have it clear unless I am doing something important.

[Zarzak]

Lets focus on hardcore players and ignore newbies and filthy casuals.

Look how that worked out for wildstar.

Lets look at how that worked out for every MMO prior to WoW coming along and pandering to the lowest common denominator.

EQ? Still releasing expansions and on a subscription based system.

EQ2? ^

FFXI? ^


Wildstar focus on hardcore? They let you solo your way to level cap. Yep really hardcore there.

[SevValen]

I dunno, even current players seem to have a hard time grasping our simplistic combat system without anything else more complicated being thrown into the mix. You give your average modern day gamer too much credit.

This I ran too many titan ex with people who just suck , there was this one group where 3 peopele would die constantly form the first plume , they wouldn't stack tight behind titan`s booty, they would put gangolas real close together, after 4 wipes you would think they'd get the flow but nope, I even told them that they sucked, they did respond but saying I sucked which threw me off when I was always the last one alive

[Magis]

snip

Don't forget that vanilla WoW and to a lesser extent TBC, would probably be considered "hardcore" now-a-days. Funny enough, those two games is where Blizzard saw the sharpest of their subscription gains, plateauing around Wrath, and then falling like mad after Cataclysm.