Keeping the game basic for new players?

[Lebenoshl]

Lets focus on hardcore players and ignore newbies and filthy casuals.

Look how that worked out for wildstar.

[Magis]

Lets focus on hardcore players and ignore newbies and filthy casuals.

Look how that worked out for wildstar.

A person can play casually and still want more complex and difficult content. How much time a person puts into the game has no bearing on the difficulty of content. There are "casuals" playing twice a week clearing coil. It's kind of sad that wanting a more complex system (and let's face it, the bar is pretty damn low in FFXIV), with difficult content is now considered "hardcore".

[Zarzak]

Lets focus on hardcore players and ignore newbies and filthy casuals.

Look how that worked out for wildstar.

Lets look at how that worked out for every MMO prior to WoW coming along and pandering to the lowest common denominator.

EQ? Still releasing expansions and on a subscription based system.

EQ2? ^

FFXI? ^


Wildstar focus on hardcore? They let you solo your way to level cap. Yep really hardcore there.

[Magis]

snip

Don't forget that vanilla WoW and to a lesser extent TBC, would probably be considered "hardcore" now-a-days. Funny enough, those two games is where Blizzard saw the sharpest of their subscription gains, plateauing around Wrath, and then falling like mad after Cataclysm.

[Zarzak]

Don't forget that vanilla WoW and to a lesser extent TBC, would probably be considered "hardcore" now-a-days. Funny enough, those two games is where Blizzard saw the sharpest of their subscription gains, plateauing around Wrath, and then falling like mad after Cataclysm.

While the original 40 man raids were alright.

I can't support calling anything where the primary mode of leveling is "solo following yellow ! marks" a MMO. The simple fact that you can reach end game without ever communicating with another human being in a MULTIPLAYER game is the problem with today's MMOs.

That is without (to use the Southpark reference) "staying in the forest killing boars" aka killing stuff MANY levels below yourself for TERRIBLE amounts of experience and taking MANY MANY times longer than actual group play.

[Magis]

While the original 40 man raids were alright.

I can't support calling anything where the primary mode of leveling is "solo following yellow ! marks" a MMO. The simple fact that you can reach end game without ever communicating with another human being in a MULTIPLAYER game is the problem with today's MMOs.

That is without (to use the Southpark reference) "staying in the forest killing boars" aka killing stuff MANY levels below yourself for TERRIBLE amounts of experience and taking MANY MANY times longer than actual group play.

While it was easier than previous MMOs, it has no comparison to what exists now. The world was much more open back then. Players would be constantly exploring, fighting, questing, and just traveling through Azeroth. Leveling took time (though not as much as FFXI), giving players ample time to learn their class as skills came in. Elite mobs and even other players brought danger to the world (for anyone who remembers those damn sneak T-Rexes in Un'goro). Later on though, flying mounts let players skip most battles, leveling has been so nerfed you can buy max level characters, and everything became instant teleport like FFXIV is (which is probably where they got the idea from).

While you technically could level to 60 without talking to anyone, you'd have a very difficult time completing elite quests which required a party of at least 2-3 people, and you'd miss out on dungeon gear and quests. There was no LFR or LFG system, so player interaction was a must. Also it was all on your own server, so people knew each other to an extent. If you were a ninja looter, your name would be black marked, spread on the realm forum.

[Zarzak]

There was no LFR or LFG system, so player interaction was a must. Also it was all on your own server, so people knew each other to an extent. If you were a ninja looter, your name would be black marked, spread on the realm forum.

While the elite quests n such weren't necessary so wouldn't contradict what I said originally. You are right on this point. At least early on WoW still had SOME redeeming qualities (such as still putting some value on a reputation). But Blizzard took what was already a "baby's 1st MMO" and destroyed the whole MMO community. And are basically the sole reason trolls exist in MMOs. Prior to WoW the idea of a troll was pretty much unheard of in an MMO beyond the noob levels because they would never make it to high end.