Keeping the game basic for new players?

[Amberion]

And unfortunately this game caters to players whove never played an mmo. Its a pity cause this game has potential to be a great with complicated and fun mechanics

While that is true. Everyone else also had a MMORPG that was their first. And somehow, we handled it well.

I would be kind of insulted if I was a new player and see how dumb they consider new players.

[Felis]

I was reading through the last live letter notes and came across this.

Q: Do you plan on adding buffer or debuffer roles?

A: At the moment we plan on continuing with the three current roles: tank, DPS, and healer. If we added more roles to these three, it would become more complicated to decide which job fits into which role, and I believe new players will be joining the game in 3.0 so we don't want to make it difficult for them to understand. For the time being we would like to keep the number of roles as it is as we move forward.

Really?? Keep in mind the question asked is irrelevant. The answer is where the problem lies "In Bold". Is the dev team assuming that new players are incapable of figuring anything out? This is not the mindset that i am looking forward to in the evolution of this game. That's fine if he wants to keep these 3 roles but his reasoning for doing so is not a good one.

I marked some parts

[Lebenoshl]

Lets focus on hardcore players and ignore newbies and filthy casuals.

Look how that worked out for wildstar.

[Magis]

Lets focus on hardcore players and ignore newbies and filthy casuals.

Look how that worked out for wildstar.

A person can play casually and still want more complex and difficult content. How much time a person puts into the game has no bearing on the difficulty of content. There are "casuals" playing twice a week clearing coil. It's kind of sad that wanting a more complex system (and let's face it, the bar is pretty damn low in FFXIV), with difficult content is now considered "hardcore".

[Zarzak]

Lets focus on hardcore players and ignore newbies and filthy casuals.

Look how that worked out for wildstar.

Lets look at how that worked out for every MMO prior to WoW coming along and pandering to the lowest common denominator.

EQ? Still releasing expansions and on a subscription based system.

EQ2? ^

FFXI? ^


Wildstar focus on hardcore? They let you solo your way to level cap. Yep really hardcore there.

[Magis]

snip

Don't forget that vanilla WoW and to a lesser extent TBC, would probably be considered "hardcore" now-a-days. Funny enough, those two games is where Blizzard saw the sharpest of their subscription gains, plateauing around Wrath, and then falling like mad after Cataclysm.

[Zarzak]

Don't forget that vanilla WoW and to a lesser extent TBC, would probably be considered "hardcore" now-a-days. Funny enough, those two games is where Blizzard saw the sharpest of their subscription gains, plateauing around Wrath, and then falling like mad after Cataclysm.

While the original 40 man raids were alright.

I can't support calling anything where the primary mode of leveling is "solo following yellow ! marks" a MMO. The simple fact that you can reach end game without ever communicating with another human being in a MULTIPLAYER game is the problem with today's MMOs.

That is without (to use the Southpark reference) "staying in the forest killing boars" aka killing stuff MANY levels below yourself for TERRIBLE amounts of experience and taking MANY MANY times longer than actual group play.

[Magis]

While the original 40 man raids were alright.

I can't support calling anything where the primary mode of leveling is "solo following yellow ! marks" a MMO. The simple fact that you can reach end game without ever communicating with another human being in a MULTIPLAYER game is the problem with today's MMOs.

That is without (to use the Southpark reference) "staying in the forest killing boars" aka killing stuff MANY levels below yourself for TERRIBLE amounts of experience and taking MANY MANY times longer than actual group play.

While it was easier than previous MMOs, it has no comparison to what exists now. The world was much more open back then. Players would be constantly exploring, fighting, questing, and just traveling through Azeroth. Leveling took time (though not as much as FFXI), giving players ample time to learn their class as skills came in. Elite mobs and even other players brought danger to the world (for anyone who remembers those damn sneak T-Rexes in Un'goro). Later on though, flying mounts let players skip most battles, leveling has been so nerfed you can buy max level characters, and everything became instant teleport like FFXIV is (which is probably where they got the idea from).

While you technically could level to 60 without talking to anyone, you'd have a very difficult time completing elite quests which required a party of at least 2-3 people, and you'd miss out on dungeon gear and quests. There was no LFR or LFG system, so player interaction was a must. Also it was all on your own server, so people knew each other to an extent. If you were a ninja looter, your name would be black marked, spread on the realm forum.

[MageBlack]

Tim Buckley did a great writeup about Wildstar which kind of illustrates the shift in player mentality. I will link to it here. I get that lots of people are crying out for hardcore content (not exactly the point of the OP but it ties together) but one thing this game is doing is taking the MMO genre outside of the traditional space of PC only. It's appealing to a whole other demographic.

People like my son who is 9yo. He is fully capable of playing and keeping up with me (he's level 50 now and we have been starting on end game content and getting his ilevel up) but only with the controller. The mouse and keyboard layout is a little overwhelming for him right now. He is no hardcore pro and his rotation could use some work but he's DPS and he does well enough. My wife is another one who is slowly learning to play. For the most part all she plays are games like Candy Crush, Bejeweled or once in a while Skylanders. Just like my son, she could never use the mouse and keyboard setup but can figure out the controller a little easier. As it is, the game is a little intimidating for her at times but it eases you in at a pace that seems to work well for her.

It seems that most people (posting on the forums) expect everyone who plays to be on the same level if skill that they are and if you arent on that level of skill, you shouldnt be playing. What a crummy way to look at it. I like the way that SE is handling this game, its something that is possible for people with little to no experience in MMO's or even games in general can pick up and give it a try. Who knows, people like my Wife and Son may become the next wave of hardcore MMO enthusiasts all because this one particular game was user-friendly enough to allow them that taste that got them hooked.

TL;DR
If your issue is the part you highlighted in bold because it "dumbs down the game" just remember that you are not the only type of player SE is targeting. There are other games coming out that may end up satisfying your needs if this game isnt cutting the mustard. This is but a single game in the Sea of MMO's Let it be it's own thing or at least offer ideas from within the parameters the devs are working within.

[Valtiel13]

Making something accessible and making something with depth is not mutually exclusive. I feel like the OP completely misrepresents the quoted statement. Making something easy to understand does NOT mean the same thing as making something easy or simple or devoid of depth.

I agree that this game isn't doing a great job at showing players the basics. Better quests for classes/jobs or something along the lines of WoW's proving grounds could be helpful.