Paladin lacking the use of utility in Coil 2?

[Prototype909]

In Coil 1 Paladin was more or less required because prior to echo having Spirits Within for Turn 1/2 mitigating the need for multiple Bards and Shield Bash easing Dread Knight kills in T5.

Flash's blind doesn't serve a purpose in higher level content (Has some use in Garuda EX iirc), Shield Swipe can conserve TP in emergencies but the pacification is irrelevant, Awareness is probably the least valuable cooldown in the game, Tempered Will has some gimmick applications (Tanking landslides, avoiding inhale in T6, avoiding landmine blowback in T8).

Now I'm not suggesting a return to Coil 1's limiting nature where you always want to bring one Paladin, but wouldn't it be preferable for some of these abilities to either have their effects reworked (Or replaced/augmented) to be more practical in use for end game content?

[Brannigan]

I kind of talked about this in another thread. Paladin is awesome in 4 man dungeons, but a lot of its abilities are neutered in 8 man.

The biggest offenders (imo) are Shield Swipe and Shield Bash. Other than Ifrit hard and the Dorme Chimera, I can't think of any 8 man bosses that actually let you pacify them. Mmmmayyyybe an add on Leviathan Extreme? Either way, Pacify is really overpowered, which is why we don't get to use it. Same thing with Shield Bash stun. Paladin already hurts for usable WSes, so taking away those two just further cements the whole "123123" thing.

Sooo my thinking is since paladin already does way less damage than warrior while tanking, why not turn Shield Swipe and Shield Bash into real DPS increases? Yeah, swipe is technically better than Halone combo, but it's not really a good damage increase. Here's what I'd do:

Shield Swipe - stays as is

Shield Bash: Delivers an attack with potency 110. (TP Cost 150)
Additional Effect: Stun 6s (PvP 4s)
Combo Action: Shield Swipe / Combo Potency: 390
Combo Bonus: Restores 80 TP over 15 seconds.

So basically you get a 300 potency/gcd combo (Halone is 203/gcd) that you can do every 15s after a block if you want to stay okay on TP. A nice DPS boost that you can't really use while OTing.

As for blind and awareness, I think they're kind of lost causes. The devs seem content with Awareness (even with how crappy it is), and I don't see them letting us bring random dodge chance into carefully calculated boss fights. Tempered Will actually gets a decent amount of use, IMO, though I wouldn't mind a shorter cooldown. Overall, though, I agree with you that a lot of our pure utility skills should be changed into buttons that can be used in *every* fight. Warrior is a good example of this since their rework. Outside of Holmgang and Fracture you can probably find a use for every one of their buttons in every fight.

[Abigs]

I dont think warriors have it any better

[Kydi]

Swipe is, as it currently stands, helpful in maintaining enough to, particularly given that it doesn't break combo. I do think that Shield bash should be cheaper - 150TP is a huge cost for a weak attach and a stun.

Having only had limited experience of endgame I certainly have found that paladins are limited in function. I can hold hate with a 123, but other than that my abilities don't really have any benefit. It would be nice to see some other utility, perhaps flash dropping magic defence for a while or something like that instead of blind.

[Prototype909]

I dont think warriors have it any better

Warriors have more damage while main tanking, they never had utility but that was never the draw of the class (Unless you count the debuff combo route). You brought a Paladin in first Coil because they were basically necessary in pre-echo T5 to stunlock Dreadknights and because they helped in T1/T2 for the silence. If these abilities aren't actually going to have use in anything outside of leveling content in the future (Which is currently the trend if 2nd Coil is indication) then wouldn't it be preferable for them to rework some of these abilities into a second combo route (To address the 123 complaints with PLD). This isn't necessarily about "Buffing" Paladin so much as it is making Paladin actually feel like a complete class.

[Brannigan]

I dont think warriors have it any better

Holmgang and Brutal Swing have some of their utility disabled, but you can still use Holmgang to prevent knockback and death and Brutal Swing can be used for damage on everything. Warriors get to use all of their buttons in way more situations, so they feel like a more complete class. For me, at least, it's not necessarily about effectiveness. If hey had to take away some utility in order to make paladins more complete overall, I'd take that.

This isn't really a problem unique to paladins, though, and I don't really expect anything to be done about it before the expansion. Monks are another class with a lot of useless skills or very limited skills (One Ilm Punch, Haymaker, etc)

[Reynhart]

I dont think warriors have it any better

Maybe if bosses were immune to Storm's Eye or Storm's Path debuff, you'd understand why we think there's an issue here.

[Dano]

T9, silencing earthshock golems, using tempered will for chariot and heavensfall, eating bahamut claws like a boss with proper use of HG...etc. I don't know, seems pretty good utility here.

[LukeyP666]

As I said in another thread, who says that the third tier of Coil won't see a return to key members of the party using their utility skills?

Binding Coil seemed to focus on one or two key members a bit more (silencing ADS, chain-stunning Dreads, etc.), whereas Second Coil seems to be more about team cohesion and all working together as a unit. There's very little opportunity for anyone to just tunnel vision and ignore mechanics.

And as Dano said, in Turn 9 there are plenty of opportunities for Paladins to use their utility skills.

[Alphras]

Maybe if bosses were immune to Storm's Eye or Storm's Path debuff, you'd understand why we think there's an issue here.

Storm's Path immunity would be like a Rage of Halone debuff immunity, which does not exist. The thing with WAR is, beside increasing damage for PLD, they don't have any utility to begin with. I would love to have a Cover like ability...

Edit: And it is bad design to begin with if a certain class is absolutely needed.