Please add clearance condition to Group Finder

[TomTom1968]

[…]Nobody is being lazy or asking for hand holding. People should have the maximum opportunities to learn. Actually exclusive PFs, e.g. asking for farm only, should NOT be allowed. They are wrong and bad for the game and community to be excluding people from participation. If you are putting stuff up on the PF, you should be at the mercy of those kind enough to join you and not the other way around.[…]

Oh boy. So according to your irrational views, no farm parties should be allowed? Pardon me, but what function has the Party Finder if I cannot search for people who are in the same boat I am? What is the difference to Duty Finder where you only have to deal with what you get?

This thread is highly entertaining and the twisted views some people showed in here are truly amazing. Is it really so hard to understand that some players want to sometimes form a party of kill experienced players? Is it really beyond your imagination that sometimes people want to get something done quickly? Why on Earth do you claim a right for new players to join FARM parties where several kills are part of the join requirements?

And why is it suddenly a crime against Humanity to look for a specific party? I thought Party Finder is exactly for that. Each requirement you set excludes people. Item level, job presets. All these elements take care that some players cannot enter a party. How is a clearance checkbox different from that? It really isn’t.

But this would prevent some of you guys from lying and that’s the main reason for being against it I assume. Item Level is something you can blow up with crafted items or PVP items. You can also bypass specific job requirements by going in with the needed class you do not know to play as good as your main job. But a clearance check box can’t be tricked and I guess this doesn’t sound too appealing for the Pretenders in the Game.

This is really ridiculous. Alone thinking about a mechanism that would prevent you from lying and stealing yourselves into kill parties seems to be getting under your skin. Why? Because some seem to claim a right to enter whatever party they want to. “Those mean elitists want to be closed fight clubs b-b-but I just want to learn”. That's all I get from the "contra"-responses. That you put your needs higher than the needs of others to just do something quickly seems to be irrelevant.

Ever thought about being proactive and look for groups that fit to your needs? Ever thought about spending hours on your own to form a party? If there are not enough training parties or “aim to kill” parties open in PF, why not just open one by yourself? Nope, hopping in each party that's on PF no matter what they ask for in the description is much easier and potentially quicker, I know.

Yes there are players without a win who just need a good party. Yes, there are talented players who learn quickly. Also Yes to there are players who bought the win or were dead while the rest of the party won. But that’s not the topic. You can’t eliminate all possible causes of problems when you form a party with Strangers. The topic is to at least have a little Safety that all players have seen the end of a Fight already. This is not the solution to everything but it would put all the liars to an end who enter such groups and reveal that they have 0 kill/farm experience when you enter the Raid and see the Myth bonus line in chat.

[LalaRu]

Even if I am against anything that helps division between players, I will agree that the party leader is King on Party Finder group, and s/he have all rights to decide how the party is composed.

Anyway, as long as s/he already can check players on lodestone, will not agree on implementing things meant to encourage player division: if leader wants be sure about the kill, s/he needs make the extra effort on it.

About players that enters PF without the description requirements, it always happens and it is not only related to this case. You can kick then and yes you wasted time, but happens. We still far from a perfect world. And this will happen again even if that checkbox have been implemented, because as you already have noticed, there are players that got carried. And they are really a lot, because that "selling primal kills" business seems so profitable as long as so much players are doing it. Blame them both (sellers and buyers).

[Shadowedge]

This whole thread is pretty douchey. By implementing this, you're also asking to lockout legitimately good players who happen to be doing this particular content for the first time. Or maybe even for the 50th time, but now on a second character.

[TomTom1968]

And another one...ROFL. Yeah the mean elitists actually want to farm something instead of wiping with 1st timers. It is not that they went through the learning phases as well and joined/formed 1st timer, training and aim to kill parties before they reached the point of one shotting a certain fight. To Hell with them that they do not want to practice forever and include all players in all Servers till they get their Win! Do you even get the difference between learning a fight and farming a content? Looks like some don't know there is a difference. I know Win and Wipe both start with a W but still, there is a significant difference.....

[Melinabean0]

Well. There is a lot of nonsense in this thread, I'd say I can't believe it, but I can.

So. Mmkay. As someone who hasn't even unlocked everything this game has to offer thus far, i.e. coils/extreme modes, I see no problem with allowing a clearance condition. I would not want to be the one dragging others down or being carried through when they CLEARLY stated that they are going to farm said content. And as others have said, just make your own party for a learning group or party up with some friends. That's coming from someone who has a hard time branching out. I just don't see why there are 22 pages arguing this. Sure, it may cause some people to abuse it. But, really, Elitists will be elitists no matter what the conditions are and people who like to help will. It's just humans being humans. Stop being silly.

Edit: Read this bit after said post above but...

This whole thread is pretty douchey. By implementing this, you're also asking to lockout legitimately good players who happen to be doing this particular content for the first time. Or maybe even for the 50th time, but now on a second character.

I imagine even a legitimately good character would still have a few problems on the first run through, but I may be wrong there. I could see a potential problem with the second character bit, but still. Just don't join that particular group that has the requirement. If it happens to be all the groups, make your own group. I'm sure other people who are in the same boat would join.

[Fynlar]

Not going to happen, surely. SE is not about to go and help players further with segregating newer players from content; that's just shooting themselves in the foot.

[Meshico]

@OP - I agree with your OP, and most of your other posts, I would say all but I really can't remember every detail.

Party Finder - The party leader has the right to request anything he/she wants. If their is a button to exclude people that are trying to lie and sneak in, I'm all for that.

The entire OP is about PARTY FINDER

@OP I would encourage you to use Bold, Underline and Bigger Font Size where applicable.

I rarely read 22 pages worth of replies, but this one I read.

Please people keep things on topic, and for those of you who try to convince ONE PERSON, realize some people just can't/wont/don't want to understand. That is fine, don't take it personal your still right!

Remember if you agree "Like" his post and tell your friends about it so they can like it.

-Tari

p.s. If you don't like it, that's OK to just don't accidentally like the OP thread

[Gucci_Charms]

Those against this feature keep claiming it is to segregate or promote community divide.

The real issue I am seeing, however, is that new players won't be able to get carried or put the effort to learn the specific instance on their own. That's really what it is coming down to. It is not even about elitism or being a "jerk." It's about not being able to join 7 other players who put in the effort to down the specific content and then leech of their skills to get your ninja win.

There's nothing stopping new players from creating their own parties in Party Finder to gather like-minded players currently in the same boat for the specific instance. What's stopping new players is them not being proactive. They are just being lazy, being entitled, not willing to learn from scratch, and expecting everyone to drop what they're doing to help them.

Why should veteran players who put in the work and time be obligated to cancel their farm or previous win only clear party and wipe for hours just to help you learn? If veteran players want to help you, they will. Otherwise, veteran players don't owe new players anything.

Stop equating elitism with your inability to ninja win or leech of farm/previous win clear parties.

SE already did new or troubled players a favor to accommodate their troubles with the introduction of the Echo Buff. If you keep wiping with this buff, then that issue falls with you or the other oddballs in your party. When that happens, you simply need to get rid of the dead weight to progress further. If the issues fall on you, however, you personally have to step your game up. For those who cannot clear content with Echo buff, that's pathetic lmao.

[Shougun]

Oh boy. So according to your irrational views, no farm parties should be allowed? Pardon me, but what function has the Party Finder if I cannot search for people who are in the same boat I am? What is the difference to Duty Finder where you only have to deal with what you get?

This thread is highly entertaining and the twisted views some people showed in here are truly amazing. Is it really so hard to understand that some players want to sometimes form a party of kill experienced players? Is it really beyond your imagination that sometimes people want to get something done quickly? Why on Earth do you claim a right for new players to join FARM parties where several kills are part of the join requirements?

And why is it suddenly a crime against Humanity to look for a specific party? I thought Party Finder is exactly for that. Each requirement you set excludes people. Item level, job presets. All these elements take care that some players cannot enter a party. How is a clearance checkbox different from that? It really isn’t.

But this would prevent some of you guys from lying and that’s the main reason for being against it I assume. Item Level is something you can blow up with crafted items or PVP items. You can also bypass specific job requirements by going in with the needed class you do not know to play as good as your main job. But a clearance check box can’t be tricked and I guess this doesn’t sound too appealing for the Pretenders in the Game.

This is really ridiculous. Alone thinking about a mechanism that would prevent you from lying and stealing yourselves into kill parties seems to be getting under your skin. Why? Because some seem to claim a right to enter whatever party they want to. “Those mean elitists want to be closed fight clubs b-b-but I just want to learn”. That's all I get from the "contra"-responses. That you put your needs higher than the needs of others to just do something quickly seems to be irrelevant.

Ever thought about being proactive and look for groups that fit to your needs? Ever thought about spending hours on your own to form a party? If there are not enough training parties or “aim to kill” parties open in PF, why not just open one by yourself? Nope, hopping in each party that's on PF no matter what they ask for in the description is much easier and potentially quicker, I know.

Yes there are players without a win who just need a good party. Yes, there are talented players who learn quickly. Also Yes to there are players who bought the win or were dead while the rest of the party won. But that’s not the topic. You can’t eliminate all possible causes of problems when you form a party with Strangers. The topic is to at least have a little Safety that all players have seen the end of a Fight already. This is not the solution to everything but it would put all the liars to an end who enter such groups and reveal that they have 0 kill/farm experience when you enter the Raid and see the Myth bonus line in chat.

My concern isn't that it happens or should or shouldn't be punished, but that making it easier to find "easy runs" will make the button more popular than it already is to do it, making it -more- likely that a player has to do DF (if that is even an option for certain contents) or just don't do the content. I've seen this happen in MMOs even without a know your stuff button, and as I said before I can't say how widespread the button would be after implementation but that I can only assume the mindset would be more common. Problem is especially bad as content gets older. Learning parties are not as popular to join as not, since everyone wants what is easy (including the people trying to sneak in and those wanting this button to stop the sneakers, smeagol).

I see the intention here as one of less stress, a good intention if you are on the right side of the fence - but I don't think it is better for the community when the general expectation becomes "to get in, you need to have already been in". "Well find a learning party lazy scrub" - "people" are limited resources, people who would pick the harder option when they can easy mode the easy option even rarer, and so specially over time being a lazy scrub is not really reasonable anymore.

People having the right to lie, I'm not suggesting that - I think you should ask and announce yourself in, and GMs have already said that agreements at the door can be enforced (people sneaking in unannounced should be aware of that, specially if they start to kill the run).

What if we had learning dungeons about a week or two after the content is out with limited rewards:
Perhaps if every actually hard dungeon had an optional Echo Playback, where you could travel around and remember the memories of other adventurers who went through an area. Learn key parts of the dungeon solo and then after completing all memories you are counted as "completed". Could add it to the DF too.. This would increase the average know how of players in the queue, though of course some people just don't care - I've wiped to Titan HM in a party of all ilvl100+. Thinking to myself, how? lol

Having to complete a dungeon's memory sequence as each particular trinity type you want to join in, however there could be a one time seal or gil reward for each job. I say a week or two because you want the first wave to know nothing, it is a unique experience - and also over time people will be less interested in taking new people to hard contents, so this is my suggestion on allowing new people the reasonable option to earn their ticket into content queues (PF/DF).

I know it is a compromise from just never having to deal with new people but again it's not about letting people lie it's that the path to a bad community can be paved with the lazy and good intentions.

Lore wise you could have the first week or two of players completing content get placed into a pool of names the game can pull out and have you "experience", it shouldn't be a replay but you could just give a tip of the hat to the fore runners and also make legitimate explanation why a new dungeon not existing before is now "echo"-able.

@Gucci please stop assuming everyone is a lazy noob, it is insulting and inaccurate. The system will further divide because the system is defined to not allow certain groups in, by definition of the system it is just.. it makes no sense to say it wont. It has to, that is the feature of the button. By how much, that is arguable though.

[Gucci_Charms]

Wall of Text.

New players does not equal everyone. Also my posts have reasons outside being lazy. Thank you very much.

The system we're referring to is Party Finder. It is designed to filter out players for your party needs. If a specific party is looking for previous winners only, what business does a new player have to join it outside trying to get an easy win/carried?

If a specific player isn't necessarily new but has made it to the very last phase of the fight and is familiar and confident with their abilities to down it with that group, they can easily /tell the Party Leader if they can be allowed to join.

Everyone has equal opportunity to use Party Finder and post or search for parties that accommodate their needs. If there is not a learning party, then make one? It takes less than 10 seconds. Don't just jump into a farm/previous win party to learn the fight expecting them to welcome you with open arms - because they likely won't. Joining that group just to have them wipe for hours because you actually have no prior experience or never beaten it is just straight up inconsiderate and rude.