Please add clearance condition to Group Finder

[DenariusJay]

I have not seen a single learning party finder for /ANYTHING/ in the last two weeks between 2pm and 11pm EST on Balmung. Not one. However I have seen several (I did not keep count. There were a few but not overly plentiful) PF for "Clear only, Myth Bonus = Disband and reform"

Yeah, pretty much the norm. Fact of the matter is this game breeds "the elite vs everyone else" playstyles. You have those don't wanna waste time and those that want to learn, but have a hard time putting together a NON-TOXIC group of players that makes learning enjoyable instead of "OMG YOU SCRUB IDIOT YOU FELL OFF GEEZ FUKK THIS GROUP" like what usually happens (specially in DF). How do you learn if your not allowed to make mistakes? You learn from mistakes. From the wipes. I actually would like to see this added just to weed out of the elite toxic mentality and make those that still want to learn the fight beable to be with like-minded folk.

[Eidolon]

Fact of the matter is this game breeds "the elite vs everyone else" playstyles. You have those don't wanna waste time and those that want to learn, but have a hard time putting together a NON-TOXIC group of players that makes learning enjoyable instead of "OMG YOU SCRUB IDIOT YOU FELL OFF GEEZ FUKK THIS GROUP" like what usually happens (specially in DF).

1. DF is not you 'putting together a learning party'
2. I make learning parties on Balmung when I need to learn the content. These are my laid-back parties. I put specifically in the PF, "Learning party. Come in ready to put in the full hour." <- this removes expectations. From there, I escalate. "Second phase learning party. Please know all mechanics in phase 1. Will boot if necessary." and eventually "G>N Farm party" etc etc.
3. People are impatient and lazy. I do not mean you are, but I am saying this as a fact. I have seen SO MANY PEOPLE join my ramuh-ex parties that have NO PLACE there (Not following a basic priority system, etc etc) that I have LITERALLY had to make macro's to call out -everything- in Ramuh EX. For greed parties. Do you want to know what my macro's are?

/p Clean Up Orbs Please EXCEPT ONE NORTHERNMOST ORB
/p Clean Up Orbs Please
/p Tank Orbs
/p <t> will break tethers!
/p Main Tank Overcharge
/p STOP DPS
/p RESUME DPS

Literally, I have had to break it down to that level. And I have to spam it a bunch. @_@

However, from my end, learning parties are always very encouraging for people, and do not necessarily wreck people unless you put things like "going for the clear" which imply that you somehow think you've learned enough to be able to get there. It's almost like a false bait. However, what I've noticed is that truly, for learning parties, people will put in their all in a very polite manner so long as they are not baited into something they do not expect. If you make a true learning party, people will be patient.


TL;DR: Do not join clear parties if you're learning. Do not expect everyone in DF To be patient if you're learning (That's unfair to those who want to use it to clear it as it is unfair for them to be mean to you. The only thing you can control there is yourself.) Be patient and build your own groups: Gods know I build my own often enough.

[polyhedral]

You have to use DF to finish a dungeon before it's roulette, so yea, it actually is a learning party.

[Marukoban]

Yeah, pretty much the norm. Fact of the matter is this game breeds "the elite vs everyone else" playstyles. You have those don't wanna waste time and those that want to learn, but have a hard time putting together a NON-TOXIC group of players that makes learning enjoyable instead of "OMG YOU SCRUB IDIOT YOU FELL OFF GEEZ FUKK THIS GROUP" like what usually happens (specially in DF). How do you learn if your not allowed to make mistakes? You learn from mistakes. From the wipes. I actually would like to see this added just to weed out of the elite toxic mentality and make those that still want to learn the fight beable to be with like-minded folk.

Maybe it's something to do with some servers/data centers' players culture/mentality?
I see learning party everyday in Tonberry, be it for T6, T7, T8, T9 or Ramuh, and they always get filled.
You don't see one for other contents because you can clear those reliably in DF, including T5, Titan EX, Mog EX, Levi EX, etc.
I'm inclined to agree that if you are new, go and join learning/progression party finder.
Maybe the reason no one wants to join those is because most new players in some servers can't be bothered to learn from scratch and expect to be carried by "clear" party?
I mean, there's no way there aren't enough player new to T6/7/8/9 to form a party together and learn the fight.
It only takes 8 out of 50k per server?

[Eidolon]

You have to use DF to finish a dungeon before it's roulette, so yea, it actually is a learning party.

I don't really ever see Learning Parties being made for Tam-Tara HM. There's no roulette for T1-5, EX Primals, etc etc. The "Content" that requires actual learning parties. The only roulettes are for 4-man dungouns, HM Primals, and Main Scenario [2 8-man dungouns] which, to be fair, can be learned in 1-2 pulls of a boss due to small-scale mechanics. <_<

Edit-in: Fixed myself on the roulettes. I stated originally it was only 4-man dungouns, but yams a little sleepy.

[DenariusJay]

snipz.

Yeah, all good advice/points. And yeah, I'm aware DF is not for learning. But sometimes you don't really have a choice. Server gets slow; PF takes forever, I have things to do - DF is the easiest and most convenient way to just get into the content. I don't go in blind anymore, I always read a guide or watch a video so I have some half ass knowledge but nothing beats just getting in there and taking the beating. It just sucks when you get entitlement from both sides, those that use DF hoping for the pure clear & farm and those using it going in blind hoping for carry. Both mindsets are ridiculous when you think about it. I like think of DF as the middle grown, its the place to go to just get experience, if you clear it, great! If not, oh well - you got the practice to be able to form a PF and try and clear it on your home server. Its to random to try and control it for anything else (farming party or pure learning)

[Eidolon]

Counter-snipz!

I think you're a minority of the mindset, and I don't think that in a bad way. Not a lot of people are willing to give as well as they take in regards to DF - most people want it all one way or another. I respect the fact that you read up before going into DF, and go in prepared to learn the mechanics first-hand. There should be those who are more experienced, in that case, who are willing to teach and work with you to find a strategy that works for you.

Sadly, not a lot of people are willing to go even half way to read a guide, and believe the DF is there to tell them what mechanics they need to handle. So, I think you've got the right mindset - and no one meeting you halfway is a problem with the community.

[Laerune]

I am against the suggestion of OP. Lots of players get carried by their friends, guild or luck and they get the clear, these players can also ruin a farm/kill run. Its wrong to assume that every newcomer is terrible scrub and that every player who has done it once is epic awsome bassass. I reckon if you want to farm, go with friends and freecompany members and if you get a random that is bad, kick him or her out.

This thread reminds me alot of World of Warcraft that game is known for its community segregation and vile cesspool that drives newcomers away from clearing content. FFXIV does not have the best community, but we are much better then WoW, please dont encourage players to become World of Warcraft community 2.0.

[Dashuto]

"Guys! Really! We just want to use it to assure clean and tidy farm groups! It has absolutely no use in keeping new players stuck as new forever! Gosh you're really jumping the gun in here!"

(Dohohoho.... hohohohohoo...)

[Ashkendor]

"Guys! Really! We just want to use it to assure clean and tidy farm groups! It has absolutely no use in keeping new players stuck as new forever! Gosh you're really jumping the gun in here!"

(Dohohoho.... hohohohohoo...)

Except that's totally not the case. Everyone has to learn, yes, but farm parties are not the place to do it. I have no problem teaching people a fight as long as I know that's what I'm getting into when I join the party. If I join a party that's billed as a farm party, however, I expect a certain level of skill/knowledge from the players in it. Sometimes I feel up to teaching, and at that point I'll join a learning party. Other times I just want to kick back and repeatedly smack something upside the head with players that are on the same page that I am.