Please add clearance condition to Group Finder

[Souljacker]

I don't see how it's any different than currently asking for experience in the fight. The only difference is you lose that infinitesimal chance the group will say "ok, let's just go" after entering and seeing the "new player" message. If someone wants to make a farm group, that's their choice. They shouldn't be forced to enter an instance and find that some people don't meet the requirements, and have to go back out and repost their party finder.

[Ellatrix]

When 2.4 comes and I farm Coil2, anyone who joins my party will be required to have i110 and link two HA weapons or they get the boot and blacklist. Once my party fills, I will then go on to enjoy farming. I did this with great success on 2.2 and T5 farming. The checkbox the OP wants would just be convenient so that people who don't read the party finder can't join and waste my time in the first place - since I would just kick them out anyway when they fail to link a weapon to show proof of completion.

I sell runs, and this checkbox would really not do anything for me in terms of getting more sales. Something like 70%+ of merc runs are for repeat customers. So don't go throwing that out when you have no experience. Hey that gives me an idea - I want tools for creating a thread that only people who have certain in-game achievements can post in! Anything endgame related you must have T5/TitanX clear, and to comment on job balance you must have T9 clear!

[NyarukoW]

...
I sell runs, and this checkbox would really not do anything for me in terms of getting more sales. ..

Of course you wouldn't tell people that it would increase sales, just like you wouldn't want people to know about the price increase you'd be getting too.

How well it works in real life is vastly different than how well it works here. ...

I don't know how you define different. The odds of it working is extremely low in real life and in game. SE knows this and they will not look to segregate and divide up the playerbase that this clearance condition will induce.

...They shouldn't be forced to enter an instance and find that some people don't meet the requirements, and have to go back out and repost their party finder.

In what ways are they forced? The requirement that people must perform. The clearance condition is NOT going to solve that. People that bought clears are repeat customers, and they are still clueless as ever. The requirement is there to make the sales more desirable and profitable.

[Ellatrix]

Of course you wouldn't tell people that it would increase sales, just like you wouldn't want people to know about the price increase you'd be getting too.

You somehow didn't read the rest of the paragraph. Also, mercing runs is only like 30% of my income, so it is something I do more to spend time with my friends and joking around on voip than it is about the gil.

[Yoninxi]

umm.

You never explained why its perfectly ok for someone who has no business to join a farm party and scum it up, while the other 7 have it on farm status. Isn't that unfair to the other 7 people? The only reason you ever give is "they need to learn too",but when someone mentions they should joint a learning party/clear party, you go off on tangents about handicap ramps and disabled people, or make baseless statements about mercs and people who buy their wins. You don't want to say what it really is.

Nothing will change with the checkbox. The only difference is that the people that boot myth bonus players won't have to do it anymore cause it won't be an issue anymore. It will lead to more players joining and creating clear parties. Just today I helped a group get T5 win. While I was gathering for that there were *gasp* Ramuh, T5,6,8, leviathan, and even a Titan learning PT in the PF. But they don't exist so just join the farm party to try and leech a win

[NyarukoW]

You never explained why its perfectly ok for someone who has no business to join a farm party .....

Personally, I never join the farm parties, I much rather watch them get stuck there and never get filled and wait forever on the PF. I have no interest in helping them or tricking them or do anything with them.

In any case, the PF is meant to bring people together and play together, not for people to go an exclude each other. You have do not valid justification for excluding people. Efficiency is not valid reason, by the simple fact that you are needing someone else on the PF, you are spending time waiting, you are already not efficient. The system should not altered so you can have a easy button to exclude people.

And the "clearance condition" does not equal skill, just like gear level does not equal skill. You want skilled players, the clearance condition obviously does not do that.

Don't rely on other people to hold your hand because you're lazy or don't want to make an effort to learn...

Nobody is being lazy or asking for hand holding. People should have the maximum opportunities to learn. Actually exclusive PFs, e.g. asking for farm only, should NOT be allowed. They are wrong and bad for the game and community to be excluding people from participation. If you are putting stuff up on the PF, you should be at the mercy of those kind enough to join you and not the other way around.

[Gucci_Charms]

Invalid Arguments

Five things:

No one want wants new players in a party that clearly states FARM PARTY (PREVIOUS WINNERS ONLY).

Party Finder is accessible to ALL PLAYERS. This means that everyone has equal opportunity to create their own desired parties to accommodate the types of players they desire. They also have the ability to join a specific party that is seeking players in the same boat (farm, progress, etc.) If it is a learning party, for example, that is obviously designed for new players.

Waiting for quality player > new or incompetent player. There is nothing efficient about filling up your party with a new player who has never done the fight or practiced all the phases enough times. There is a reason why parties state WEEKLY CLEAR or FARM PARTY. The players in these parties are not there to teach you. They are there to get their desired loots and beat it multiple times without wiping constantly. YOU ARE NOT HELPING BY JOINING AND HAVING THEM WIPE FOR HOURS.

Your definition of exclusion is questionable. A clearance option just helps filter the desired players people want in their party. Party Finder is not meant to bring people together in the way you seem to think. It's purpose is to allow players to create or join parties that are suited to your needs and experience. If you join a specific party without meeting the requirements, your simply asking to be booted or blacklisted.

Stop relying on previous winning party members to help you. Sorry, but no one is obligated to help anyone in this game. If they want to help you, however, they will at their own accord. You seem to equate exclusion with the implied notion of "I want to be carried" throughout all your posts in here. It's one thing to ask players to help. However, it's a different story expecting people to carry you because you want people to hold your hand in everything.

[Pyretta_Blaze]

In any case, the PF is meant to bring people together and play together

No, it's really not. The DF is there to bring people together quickly to attempt clearing content. PF is there to allow you to build a party with your own requirements.

If I only have a short time to clear T6 then I want to be able to build a party that can clear in that timeframe. Yes, I will probably still take someone without a win if they take the initiative to send me a tell.

People already have the ability (and right) to remove someone lying about previous clears, this option would just keep people from wasting time finding it out after zoning in.

[TomTom1968]

[…]Nobody is being lazy or asking for hand holding. People should have the maximum opportunities to learn. Actually exclusive PFs, e.g. asking for farm only, should NOT be allowed. They are wrong and bad for the game and community to be excluding people from participation. If you are putting stuff up on the PF, you should be at the mercy of those kind enough to join you and not the other way around.[…]

Oh boy. So according to your irrational views, no farm parties should be allowed? Pardon me, but what function has the Party Finder if I cannot search for people who are in the same boat I am? What is the difference to Duty Finder where you only have to deal with what you get?

This thread is highly entertaining and the twisted views some people showed in here are truly amazing. Is it really so hard to understand that some players want to sometimes form a party of kill experienced players? Is it really beyond your imagination that sometimes people want to get something done quickly? Why on Earth do you claim a right for new players to join FARM parties where several kills are part of the join requirements?

And why is it suddenly a crime against Humanity to look for a specific party? I thought Party Finder is exactly for that. Each requirement you set excludes people. Item level, job presets. All these elements take care that some players cannot enter a party. How is a clearance checkbox different from that? It really isn’t.

But this would prevent some of you guys from lying and that’s the main reason for being against it I assume. Item Level is something you can blow up with crafted items or PVP items. You can also bypass specific job requirements by going in with the needed class you do not know to play as good as your main job. But a clearance check box can’t be tricked and I guess this doesn’t sound too appealing for the Pretenders in the Game.

This is really ridiculous. Alone thinking about a mechanism that would prevent you from lying and stealing yourselves into kill parties seems to be getting under your skin. Why? Because some seem to claim a right to enter whatever party they want to. “Those mean elitists want to be closed fight clubs b-b-but I just want to learn”. That's all I get from the "contra"-responses. That you put your needs higher than the needs of others to just do something quickly seems to be irrelevant.

Ever thought about being proactive and look for groups that fit to your needs? Ever thought about spending hours on your own to form a party? If there are not enough training parties or “aim to kill” parties open in PF, why not just open one by yourself? Nope, hopping in each party that's on PF no matter what they ask for in the description is much easier and potentially quicker, I know.

Yes there are players without a win who just need a good party. Yes, there are talented players who learn quickly. Also Yes to there are players who bought the win or were dead while the rest of the party won. But that’s not the topic. You can’t eliminate all possible causes of problems when you form a party with Strangers. The topic is to at least have a little Safety that all players have seen the end of a Fight already. This is not the solution to everything but it would put all the liars to an end who enter such groups and reveal that they have 0 kill/farm experience when you enter the Raid and see the Myth bonus line in chat.

[Cynfael]

Why not have a "clear required" checkbox? As others have stated quite effectively, it wouldn't signal any huge shift in player behavior. As soon as the bonus myth notification comes up, you know someone was lying and probably hoping to be carried if they joined a PF obviously labeled as "farm only/must have cleared/etc.". And yes, some players actually may know the fight perfectly and not have a clear thanks to grouping with players who can't perform the mechanics, but that's where you communicate your desire to join the group and let the leader decide to open it or not.

When it comes to end-game content, elitism isn't the only reason for not wanting to teach people from square one; sometimes it's just a matter of how much time you have to play. If you want a learning or practice party where you dedicate hours to getting everyone up to speed on mechanics, that's fine, but not everyone has that kind of time every day. I'll help with learning parties when I can, but sometimes I just need to get my own things done (especially right before reset) :P