Average BLM DPS T8?

[nugglets]

Just to clarify, everyone is using numbers from the same place correct? The main two parsers will give completely different numbers.

[nugglets]

To continue from above:

The person you are berating is right. Until you get in MORE casts your damage will be lower. So if you have not been casting uninterrupted long enough to have gotten in at least 1 extra cast, your DPS will be lower. As soon as you start recasting it will take you reaching the threshold of time where you are able to get an extra cast before you can start to make up that difference, all while losing ground in the DPS race.

In the above example from the Spreadsheet, it would take you 30 GCD's in order to get to the point where you achieved ONE extra cast. With 582 SSPD (the end of Puro's chart) you would need 22 casts to get in an extra cast. That's uninterrupted casts. The second you stop, this counter resets.

[athenia]

The person you are berating is right. Until you get in MORE casts your damage will be lower. So if you have not been casting uninterrupted long enough to have gotten in at least 1 extra cast, your DPS will be lower. As soon as you start recasting it will take you reaching the threshold of time where you are able to get an extra cast before you can start to make up that difference, all while losing ground in the DPS race.

Thank god im not alone....

@ Harold I'm around 450 in t8 with 110 weapon and no selene in my raid. the bard is using foe 1nce or maybe twice in that fight, we rly dont Need Maximum dmg cause we doing it with 1 tank.
just listen to the Person above. sure in t8 u dont have to Interrupt or move a lot, but in t9 or all the other fights u have to.

[HaroldSaxon]

Numenor, while your point is somewhat accurate in very, very specific situations I can assure you that those situations are few and far between. In the most extreme case, you are looking at .1s faster cast, which is roughly the same amount of time as the server ticks that were so popularized by Titan failures. In order to reach this .1s, you have to lose even more DPC, putting you even further behind in the case of anything less than perfect circumstances.

Your assumption that getting off ONE extra cast means you win the DPS race isn't entirely accurate. In the first example, 30 casts of 1017 = 30510 damage. 31 casts of 994 = 30814 damage, less than 1% change. I think everyone can agree that is far more reliant on luck than Harold here is making it out to be.

You can try to change what Harold is saying but what he actually said was quoted. Neither of those things are true and show that, despite his supposed prowess at BLM, he seems to not understand something very basic.

First of all, its pretty laughable that you are claiming RNG is now the problem with Spellspeed. I'm sure Crit is not RNG dependent at all.

Second of all, you say at the extreme its 0.1 Second GCD reduction. If that was true, you would be looking at 25 casts in order to get a free cast not 30. Furthermore, lets look at the Spellspeed of Puro's BIS with your favoured Crit Chestpiece, compared to my BIS. That is 490 spellspeed (2.36gcd) vs 649 (2.20gcd) Funny that, its more than what you said was an extreme. Which means to catch up it will take around 15 spells. Half of what you said. Even if you use the Spellspeed Chestpiece on Puro's set, its still larger than 0.1 Second GCD reduction.

Third of all. If you are cancelling casts as a spellspeed BLM, you are doing something wrong. I very rarely have to cancel a cast, and if I do its due to my own error. You should work your movement out of either: a) Anticipating movement with cast clipping, b) Using Aetherial Manipulation, c) Using one of your shields to ignore a mechanic, d) Use Procs to move, e) Use scathe. I have gone through many mechanics throughout this thread where this applies in each of the fights. If you know the fight and your role, you do not have to cancel your cast often.

Fourth. If you have to cancel your cast as a spellspeed build, you will have to cancel it in a crit build; however the same does not apply when reversed, which is what Numenor explained. As I pointed out above, its more than a 0.1 Second GCD reduction

Fifth: Spellspeed gives you the greatest amount of DPS point for point, regardless of seleen. The spellspeed build I posted earlier in the thread out dpses the BiS on the calculator and gives more theoretical intelligence.

If you actually think that cancelling casts happens as often as you think and that spellspeed dps is luck dependent, then all i'll say is enjoy your slower casting RNG dependent crit build.

Thank god im not alone....

@ Harold I'm around 450 in t8 with 110 weapon and no selene in my raid. the bard is using foe 1nce or maybe twice in that fight, we rly dont Need Maximum dmg cause we doing it with 1 tank.
just listen to the Person above. sure in t8 u dont have to Interrupt or move a lot, but in t9 or all the other fights u have to.

If this is the case, then you would certainly do more with spellspeed. However, saying "we rly dont Need Maximum dmg" is a poor attitude, especially when talking about DPS numbers.

tl;dr

Takes just over 15 spells for my BiS spellspeed build to beat the BiS Crit build. Slightly more spells compared to the BiS Puro build. There are plenty of ways to avoid/prepare for movement as Black Mage. More details in above post

[Numenor1379]

To be fair to what Harold is saying (and I can't believe I actually agree with him on this) SSPD still is better than a Det/Crit build for the simple fact that it gives you more flexibility as far as getting casts off. You don't need to have continous casting for the SSPD build to come out ahead, you just need one span of time where the SSPD set can get a cast off where the DET/CRIT one cannot.

Say for example the SSPD set took 2.3s to cast F1, and the DET/CRIT one took 2.4. What happens when you have a pause for 2.35s to launch a spell? In that case the SSPD set can get a cast off where it is impossible for the other build to do so. That is the advantage SSPD gives, continous casting is only part of it.

[nugglets]

Numenor, while your point is somewhat accurate in very, very specific situations I can assure you that those situations are few and far between. In the most extreme case, you are looking at .1s faster cast, which is roughly the same amount of time as the server ticks that were so popularized by Titan failures. In order to reach this .1s, you have to lose even more DPC, putting you even further behind in the case of anything less than perfect circumstances.

Your assumption that getting off ONE extra cast means you win the DPS race isn't entirely accurate. In the first example, 30 casts of 1017 = 30510 damage. 31 casts of 994 = 30814 damage, less than 1% change. I think everyone can agree that is far more reliant on luck than Harold here is making it out to be.

You can try to change what Harold is saying but what he actually said was quoted. Neither of those things are true and show that, despite his supposed prowess at BLM, he seems to not understand something very basic.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Snip

I don't check this topic for a day and it grew 2 pages xD

But this post from nugglets was very enlightening. While we are crunching numbers here, we're forgetting something obvious: It's all paper chemistry - Nothing is impossible and everything is perfect. While in theory and supposedly on dummy targets. So back to helping the topic starter: Skeith.

Frankly, your video isn't very interesting. It shows a basic black mage rotation and only for a minute worth. But here are some things to keep in mind:
Never cancel a cast for a Firestarter proc.
Never use your firestarter proc when you're about to switch into Umbral Ice (this would be after the 4th or 5th cast)
When you're in Umbral Ice with Firestarter on, use Transpose first (so you're in Astral Fire I). This will double the damage dealt.
Count the intervals when you're getting mp back. You get mp every 3 seconds while in Umbral Ice. Fire III takes about 1,6 seconds to cast (depending on your spell speed) If you time this right, you can cheese in your last MP recovery while Fire III is -just- about to finish
Make full use of Aetherial Manipulation and your procs for movement.

If possible, show us a video of your T8 attempts from your PoV. That'll show us a lot more information rather than your rotation on a dummy.

[Aikaal]

snip.

You completely missed Harold's point lol.

Because I have more Spell Speed, when I use Thunder 1, my cast is so fast that I have time to cast a free Blizzard 1. I'll rarely get a tick right away to skip that Blizzard 1. That's the reason why you gain so much DPS.

In your scenario, you've completely ignored about 5 Blizzard 1 which is about 850 Potency you didn't calculate.

[Numenor1379]

Numenor, while your point is somewhat accurate in very, very specific situations I can assure you that those situations are few and far between. In the most extreme case, you are looking at .1s faster cast, which is roughly the same amount of time as the server ticks that were so popularized by Titan failures. In order to reach this .1s, you have to lose even more DPC, putting you even further behind in the case of anything less than perfect circumstances.

Your assumption that getting off ONE extra cast means you win the DPS race isn't entirely accurate. In the first example, 30 casts of 1017 = 30510 damage. 31 casts of 994 = 30814 damage, less than 1% change. I think everyone can agree that is far more reliant on luck than Harold here is making it out to be.

You can try to change what Harold is saying but what he actually said was quoted. Neither of those things are true and show that, despite his supposed prowess at BLM, he seems to not understand something very basic.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm in complete agreement with you on this as well. Until the SSPD build has managed to get enough casts in extra to overcome the individually weaker spell damage it's at a disadvantage. Also, if you push your gear for SSPD you are going to lose a lot of INT given the requirement of using i90 crafted gear over i110 stuff.

I took a look at Harold's crafted gear, and it's impressive. But frankly, I think he's given up way too much main-stat for the off-stats his theorycrafting has as best. Comparing his gear to my own, he's got about 40-45 INT less than I do while having about 120 more SSPD and 50sh more CRIT, DET is about the same. Adding up those differences we come out to a rough wash in INT stats. So the big advantage he's got over me is that his casts take 0.11s less to make than mine.

IF, and this is a big IF, he manages to get time periods where he can get enough casts off to overcome his significantly lower base INT stat he'll come out ahead. But as I was stating in the other thread real-world applications of theory rarely meet up at the optimal levels promised by that theory. RNG and human error account for a lot.

One other thing to note is his going with i90 gear has significantly lowered his survivability over people running i110 stuff. ~500 less HP, and 20 less DEF/MDEF is nothing to sneer at.

Thank god im not alone....

@ Harold I'm around 450 in t8 with 110 weapon and no selene in my raid. the bard is using foe 1nce or maybe twice in that fight, we rly dont Need Maximum dmg cause we doing it with 1 tank.
just listen to the Person above. sure in t8 u dont have to Interrupt or move a lot, but in t9 or all the other fights u have to.

You're not alone athenia, I was just showing another example of how SSPD is good to have.

[scarebearz]

All this theory talk.... why nobody believe in the heart of the cards?!


Oh wait, wrong game ;O