Tier List

[Domira]

I think PLD is decent in pvp. Their ability to stunlock is quite good. But only shines when the team is more coordinated. If I had to voice some changes I'd like to see to the class, that doesn't make them super overpowered it would be:

1. Tempered Will CD reduced to 90 secs, duration increased to 15secs, immunity to bind added.
2. Cover now transfers physical and magical damage to the PLD
3. Oaths are no longer on GCD
4. Hallowed Ground no longer has a delay

[LiveVoltage]

I would have to agree with WHM being the most OP on frontlines. You get 3+ in the middle of a fight and nothing on the opposing side save them and they become a terror to mow down when you have multiple healers that can raise.

DRG I would rank as 4 or 5 onthe OP's scale. True, they don't have anything that makes them a valuable asset but they have a ton of utility and are great for mowing down mages who try and sprint away to avoid damage. As I recall, they can have two TP regen skills. One is standard to their class and one is PvP locked but they both restore 500tp each. Simply cast those as soon as you sprint and watch as the healers and mages squirm when they cant get away.

This provides a great tactical asset as it prevents mages from doing timed cast skills save they haven't used their insta-cast skills, greatly hindering the amount of support they can typically provide.

Dragoon in general has alot of skills for PvP that make it a great mage slayer so go figure. :I

[Houston009]

Monk #8? These tier lists really do have no merit.

[Skeet]

Maybe I missed something. If I did, I apologize.

You probably did since we both already know and do that lol

Monk #8? These tier lists really do have no merit.

Idk if he's trolling or not. He still hasn't answered why he put BLM as #1 lol.

-Instead of just trashing tiers, why not make one of your own. Better than just saying so and so's list sucks. It's supposed to be a community effort after all.

[Vaeria]

Sorry for delay in response. Jumped to Tonberry/Elemental and have had so much FL (9pm pst -9am pst during JP times) haven't had time to do anything else at night..including sleep >_>; Anyhu...picked BLM as #1 spot for a couple of reasons. I value offensive approaches over defensive ones and blm just has a huge hand in everything. Has a LB that, with sleepga can clear flags w/o any assistance (seeing 4 + healers that you've been trying to shut down for 10 minutes suddenly get broken in half by 1 blm is just...) Lets see..blm crits. They have no penalty as far as range or position (that I know of) and..as of last night...I've had the privilige of seeing what happens when 3 blms can sync Flare. This, coupled with the fact that I/we have taken flags w/o any healers present at all (blms were there though) just put blms at the top. They have their weaknesses (so does every other job) but if allowed to run free, they pose a threat like no other DPS comes close to.

[Vaeria]

About mnk...no offense Houston but I can only base these Tier lists on personal experience (it may be cheating but in the case of mnk vs drg, I'm also recalling WD fights too) Mnk has no ranged attacks (don't mean Shoulder Tackle) to start with so as long as they can't reach ya, can't hit ya. While this goes for all other melee classes, during kite stage, mnk has lowest def. Drg, with Elusive Jump, has 2 forms of Purify..mnk..has 1. Drg has the ability to nullify its positional penalties. Mnk..doesn't. Sigh..then theres burst. One Inch Punch might be taken kindve seriously by schs, but whms laugh at it. Ranged, defensively, offensively, theres just nothing mnk can do that another class can't do better. ...except brd...who has no LB and *cough* no burst. *Hear that Yoshi? We brds are at teh bottom of list so moar abilities prz.*

[Deelo]

About mnk...no offense Houston but I can only base these Tier lists on personal experience

I can do the same with your post...you haven't run into a good monk yet. Every single Tier list anyone posts will be 100% subjective so I hope nobody takes them seriously. The purpose of this thread is just to see what jobs other people like to play and why, not "drg pwns, pld sucks and you're a douche for playing one" arguments.

[Skeet]

@ Vaeria, please do tell why you think BLM stands at the top.

Interesting thread~ First off, Atreus's numbers are VERY believable. Considering that pld is at the absolute bottom of the killme-list, ALL plds SHOULD be getting these numbers. Higher survivability, way less pressure = way more time to stay engaged and dog your targets.

While his numbers are believable, there are certain obvious requirements that must be met. One being that you're constantly engaged. No running around from point to point minus the initial time to run to a spot. The second requirement being the opposing team and his own team are full of healers keeping each other alive. There is no way in hell a PLD can do 100k+ dps otherwise. And on the off chance a PLD says they hit over 100k dps without having those two requirements met, then both teams engaged must really suck and don't have the skill to kill people off.

-Also, it is good to take note that if a PLD is doing these numbers, they aren't playing their class right. If you want to DPS, then play a DPS class. Sure you don't get hit a lot as a PLD, but you sure as hell won't do as much damage as an actual DPS class.

-I've also tried pushing DPS for fun as a PLD and my damage averages somewhere between 60-85k. This includes running from point to point and playing FL like its supposed to be played; not fighting in one spot like an enlarged version of WD. Only times I've ever hit over 100k as it were the times when the other teams had 6+ WHM's, which in itself is very rare.

[Atreus]

While his numbers are believable, there are certain obvious requirements that must be met.

Already made a post describing the match. (1) There was a lot of travel time. (2) We were dealing with two parties in 2+ waves before said travel. Sorry but your "requirements" weren't met. What then?

Also, it is good to take note that if a PLD is doing these numbers, they aren't playing their class right. If you want to DPS, then play a DPS class. Sure you don't get hit a lot as a PLD, but you sure as hell won't do as much damage as an actual DPS class.

Lol you're a bold one. Please explain to me what playing the class right entails? Are you about to say "protect ur pt cover ur healur stun all the pplz!"? If so, move right along. It's very simple to carry out your job's function and keep your damage going. Incredibly simple.

And on the off chance a PLD says they hit over 100k dps without having those two requirements met, then both teams engaged must really suck and don't have the skill to kill people off.

Exceeept it was my premade. All DPS and our MRD actually trumped my damage even if only by a small amount (except one BRD, for reasons beyond his control). Point of the original post is to demonstrate PLD's ability to contribute those large numbers if played and spec'd right. I'm noticing a pattern in the replies though. General support coming from the ones that can do it or come quite close, and almost angry skepticism coming from the ones who can't.

[Skeet]

First off, I don't know what's with the aggressive attitude, but I didn't say anything negative about you till now. As I said before, I also DPS on PLD from time to time.

Already made a post describing the match. (1) There was a lot of travel time. (2) We were dealing with two parties in 2+ waves before said travel. Sorry but your "requirements" weren't met. What then?

1) A lot of travel time? Doubtful if a PLD hits 100k+. Very doubtful. Traveling from spawn to one location isn't "a lot" of travel time, FYI. But hey, I could be wrong. Prove it with a video then of your character "traveling a lot" Mr. Paladin.
2) So you were dealing with 2 parties against your 1 party? Am I assuming this right? If so, two things:

A) Very doubtful a team of 2 parties couldn't kill your 1 party team. If they didn't then they must've sucked.
B) You never included whether or not who won in this battle, but assuming your party of 1 beat 2 parties together, then a caster LB must have been involved. There's no realistic way for a team of 2 full parties to lose to only 1 party without caster LB being involved. But , back to the point now. In the case a caster LB was used and your group won against said party of 2, then that just DROPS the possibility of your PLD hitting high DPS as most of the enemy parties would be dead and picked off by the rest of your team.

Lol you're a bold one. Please explain to me what playing the class right entails? Are you about to say "protect ur pt cover ur healur stun all the pplz!"? If so, move right along. It's very simple to carry out your job's function and keep your damage going. Incredibly simple.

Whose job is it to DPS? A tank? If so, move right along.

-That's all I really need to say to counter your "argument".

But I will take the bait and counter your argument, which really isn't necessary. If you think you can stun-lock multiple targets and STILL keep DPS, then lol. To any real PLD's, any and all of them will notice a good drop in their DPS if they focus on stun-locking targets as opposed to focusing on JUST DPS'ing. A PLD's stun skill goes from 4 seconds to 2 seconds to 1 second. If you use an offensive skill in between stun times, you won't be able to effectively stun-lock the healer as they have a good chance to push you back and heal. Keep in mind this is without the fact that you gotta wait for your skill's cooldown to circle back in order to perform another action. This is 9 seconds of damage wasted. You know, because your stun skill does hardly any damage as compared to your regular attack skills. That's 9 extra seconds that could've been used to use skills that actually deal damage

-It's very simple to notice. Incredibly simple.

Exceeept it was my premade. All DPS and our MRD actually trumped my damage even if only by a small amount (except one BRD, for reasons beyond his control). Point of the original post is to demonstrate PLD's ability to contribute those large numbers if played and spec'd right. I'm noticing a pattern in the replies though. General support coming from the ones that can do it or come quite close, and almost angry skepticism coming from the ones who can't.

You missed the larger picture, and my point for that matter, and retorted with very badly hidden implied insults. (Yes, I know insults are very hip these days to forumers)

Yes, PLD's are capable of hitting those numbers. But that isn't my point. Like I said earlier, which you conveniently discarded from my original post:

If you want to DPS, then play a DPS class. Sure you don't get hit a lot as a PLD, but you sure as hell won't do as much damage as an actual DPS class.

The DPS potential in every DPS class will always be higher than a class meant to be a tank. Under the same circumstances, including both PLD's and DPS's not being hit, a PLD will never reach the same dps potential as any DPS class.