Warrior Improvement Questions

[Ouza]

Before I start please, no bashing, please be kind, I’m getting a lot of hate in dungeon runs (daily duties to buy gear) and I don't need more “you are a terrible tank, please quit.” or “if you were my girlfriend I would beat you and refuse to let you play games”

I've been tanking for close to 5 years now on a variety on MMO's, (LOTR, Wow, Star Trek, Starr Wars, etc) and I prefer tanking and am better at tanking than other classes. Though I will switch over to dps or healer to help/train new guild members. However, I LOVE tanking. I love taking agro. I love protecting the group. I feel better knowing the party is protected from agro and damage.

I am a Warrior level 50 for nearly 3 months and il 82 (takes a long time when you work full time to save for gear, sorry). I adapt my combo moves to the group and focus on where I don’t have agro or am about to lose agro, I watch ALL the bars of all players health, enmity.. I mark for newbies, I used to use flash and provoke, etc.

[Ouza]

Currently I dropped flash and provoke in favor of Savage blade and Hay maker for the enmity/damage combo. I have no problem getting agro and very rarely a problem with losing agro. My problem is that either I take agro from other tanks, or that melee Dps gets angry that I move out of AOE's, especially conal AOE's, even if I move right back into place.

I get a lot of, you are a horrible tank” comments and here is why:

1. they want defiance off because WAR or my item level automatically designates me as OT and therefore I have to be 5th DPS ALL THE TIME
2. WAR or PLD wants me to main tank and gets angry when they get agro off me
3. they want me to toggle defiance on and off at their will
4. WAR and PLD gets angry if I continually take agro off of them (and it even happens when defiance is off)

[Ouza]

5. Healers and Dps get angry if I lose one enemy out of a mob to their DPS moves. (especially DRG and MK) hey I try to get it back and sometime lose the whole mob just trying to pull the ONE enemy off them because they are freaking out
6. MAR are not tanks
7. MAR are for DPS
8. 8-man dungeons only needs one tank, not two so please stop tanking (apparently Syrcus tower teaches us this, I haunt been there, I don’t know)
9. My ilevel is lower than others, esp the tank, so I am not allowed to tank
10. they want defiance off so I shut it off then get angry it isn’t on
11. I leave defiance off to let the other tank be main and they get pissed and want it on (and then sometimes get pissed I take agro off them)
12. they want defiance off but get angry I cant get agro very well (really, no no seriously)
13. they don’t want me OT'ing the adds, I'm supposed to Dps and reduce agro as much as possible
14. WAR is not a tank, quit trying to be one

[Ouza]

when tanking I try to keep a good rotation of agro moves and forward targeting. When in parties of 4 or less my main job is keeping all agro and doing DPS second. However, I have a hard time pulling agro off of mobs which are out of my targeting range when the DPS or healer pulls the whole room of mobs and then leaves me to die. (telling me I’m a bad tank)

I have a hard time tanking ALL adds when also tanking a main boss in a dungeon. Many parties want me to stop agro'ing the main boss and focus on gathering the mobs and then tell me I am lazy or a failure when I refuse to stop taking the main boss or ask them to bring them closer for me to use a conal“overpower” to pull them in. they tell me I am lazy and a bad tank for NOT leaving the boss and going to DPS adds with them.

[Ouza]

15. haha your a lalawhathoosit, definitely not being the tank. Die lala die, we must sacrifice lala's
(or die you damn lalafel, die and stop trying to be a tank)
16. I’m not supposed to use buffs or healing moves when tanking that's the healers job. So stop using “convalescence” “thrill of battle” “blood bath” “berserk” “feather foot” “foresight” or whichever one they decide its not okay for tanks to use
17. I’m supposed to spam overpower and do no damage
18. I’m supposed to spam provoke and not deal damage (or “flash,” I hate those who insist on only “flash”)
19. I’m not supposed to use “tomahawk,” or I am.. not sure which now..
20. I'm only supposed to use “skull fracture,” “butchers block” and “sunder” (or others say I am not at all to use them ) Same goes for all other moves.. UGH
21. I shouldn’t mark targets, nobody in the party is going to follow my target marking... (and they don’t)

[Marukoban]

18. I’m supposed to spam provoke and not deal damage (or “flash,” I hate those who insist on only “flash”)

Other people have said a lot of useful things in this thread, but I'd really like to point out that this might be the reason why you keep pulling hate from the MT.
Provoke puts your enmity equal to the highest enmity level +1. Using it followed by a skill with 3/5x enmity multiplier will always pull the boss to you no matter how well the MT is playing or if you have Defiance on/off.
If you really do spam Provoke as OT, I can kind of understand why some of your party members were pissed off.
There are only 3 scenarios ever you might want to use Provoke:
1.) Tank swap, which you probably won't do for a while
2.) Pull random mobs aggroed by your party members
3.) Long range 25y pull


Playing as warrior in 4-man dungeon is really very simple.
Always open with Tomahawk - Overpower - Steel Cyclone/Overpower - then just rotate your combo on the mobs or continue Overpower if your party is doing speed run AoEing the mobs.
In 8-man content depending on whether you are MT or OT, you can do different thing.
OT should just do SE-SP combo with Defiance off. You SHOULD NOT ever take aggro as Warrior OT if your MT is halfway decent. The SE-SP combo has no enmity multiplier at all (cmiiw).
MT against single target should open with Tomahawk - Butcher's Block combo once or twice depending on how geared you are compared to your party, then do either SE-BB-(BB)-(BB) or SP-BB-(BB)-(BB).
Use Unchained with Berserk and Internal Release together whenever they're up. You should always use Unchained with Berserk, and never use it without Berserk.

[Ouza]

I get range from MT when i DONT use flash as the OT to take agro off them. (WTH)
thank you for the rest, it confirms that I have been playing all this past weekend the correct way, despite the DPS dungeon trolls who say otherwise.

i came to the forums for helpful advice because by Friday afternoon I was reduced to tears and begging my husband Sasoriza (my husband in real life) to cancel my account because of the hate I receive in dungeosn and how I am treated. no real helpful advice, all rage and hate speech. he begged me to try posting my questions on the forums to get helpful advice before giving up.

thank you for not trolling this thread.

[Ouza]

Other people have said a lot of useful things in this thread, but I'd really like to point out that this might be the reason why you keep pulling hate from the MT.

Provoke puts your enmity equal to the highest enmity level +1. Using it followed by a skill with 3/5x enmity multiplier will always pull the boss to you no matter how well the MT is playing or if you have Defiance on/off.
If you really do spam Provoke as OT, I can kind of understand why some of your party members were pissed off.
There are only 3 scenarios ever you might want to use Provoke:
1.) Tank swap, which you probably won't do for a while
2.) Pull random mobs aggroed by your party members
3.) Long range 25y pull


Playing as warrior in 4-man dungeon is really very simple.
Always open with Tomahawk - Overpower - Steel Cyclone/Overpower - then just rotate your combo on the mobs or continue Overpower if your party is doing speed run AoEing the mobs.
In 8-man content depending on whether you are MT or OT, you can do different thing.
OT should just do SE-SP combo with Defiance off. You SHOULD NOT ever take aggro as Warrior OT if your MT is halfway decent. The SE-SP combo has no enmity multiplier at all (cmiiw).
MT against single target should open with Tomahawk - Butcher's Block combo once or twice depending on how geared you are compared to your party, then do either SE-BB-(BB)-(BB) or SP-BB-(BB)-(BB).
Use Unchained with Berserk and Internal Release together whenever they're up. You should always use Unchained with Berserk, and never use it without Berserk.

I get rage from MT when i DONT use flash as the OT to take agro off them. (WTH)

i get rage from DPs when I refuse to spam provoke or flash and I use overpower or AOE's instead.
thank you for the rest, it confirms that I have been playing all this past weekend the correct way, despite the DPS dungeon trolls who say otherwise.

i came to the forums for helpful advice because by Friday afternoon I was reduced to tears and begging my husband Sasoriza (my husband in real life) to cancel my account because of the hate I receive in dungeosn and how I am treated. no real helpful advice, all rage and hate speech. he begged me to try posting my questions on the forums to get helpful advice before giving up.

thank you for not trolling this thread.

[Ouza]

On 8-man dungeons I have even worse issues. I pull agro off the other tank, MAUR or PLD with higher iLevel than me. I do take off defiance, but still have the issue. Then, they get angry when try to only use DOT moves or if I let a “savage blade” slip through. They also get angry when, with defiance off, I still get agro easy or when I don’t! And sometimes I have a hard time just doing damage and also pull enmity easy. So I get screamed at that I need to leave the party. (today I finally did, when I was told there was no place for two tanks in an 8-man Castrum) and sometimes when I have defiance off I have hard time getting agro no matter what I do and they get angry I am not pulling the other mobs, but still want me to leave defiance off and NOT TANK, I’m just supposed to pull the mobs close and leave.

[Ouza]

Please be nice and helpful in your responses, I am trying to be a good tank and make everybody happy. I don’t claim to be the best and I know there is a learning curve. I just want to be good and learn to be better. I find it difficult, when I am doing the duty roulette and seem to get the same dungeons over an over, to be told by other tanks, healers, or DPS that only their way of doing it is right and every other group I’ve met is bad and has been doing it wrong. I do at least 4 dungeons per day, sometime a lot more. EVERYBODY ELSE cant be wrong and a bad player. I've pulled many through high level dungeons and trials without a single death or with only one or two strays dying, therefore I cant be that bad, right? (sorry, the forum wont let me post more than 1,000 characters at a time.)