Why can't we have jobs with this level of depth and customization in FFXIV?

[Jynx]

The big difference between XI and XIV combat wise at least is all about pacing.

XI: Use your skills reactively, adapt to the situation. Combat was much slower paced focused around auto attacks all skills were only (Often long) cooldowns, some people don't like the slow pace.

XIV: Use your skills ALL THE TIME, there is little to "React" outside scripted events that make you step outside the painted death lines. The only real difficulty is if you continue to optimize your DPS while running around the field.

Personally I enjoyed the slower paced more methodical combat. I'm not really a fan of ramming my 1-2-3 macros switching it up with a 4-5 every once in a while making sure all my cooldowns are used and not really thinking about the combat itself I'm focused on the skillbar.

[Gilthas]

XI: Use your skills reactively, adapt to the situation.

The problem with using this argument in favour of FFXI's battle system is that the same happens in FFXIV.

It's laughable that you say that "the only real difficulty [in FFXIV] is if you continue to optimize your DPS while running around the field". FFXI didn't even have that diffculty. The only thing it had was putting the player at the mercy of the rng.

[Jynx]

The problem with using this argument in favour of FFXI's battle system is that the same happens in FFXIV.

Oh please the only time you use your abillities reactivley is if your saving up for a DPS spike and even then more often than not your better off keeping everything off cooldown instead of thinking tactically.

What RNG is in XI that isn't in XIV?

Just because in XI you weren't running around the monster like a chicken with your head cut off doesn't mean positioning and other key factors weren't important to battle. You had to actually worry about things like environmental hazards, linking monsters, everything could be a threat.

Outside of Instanced boss battles monster themselves aren't even dangerous nor interesting encounters TP moves and mechanics are litteraly ignored because they are so impotent that even bothering with dodging would just be a waste. At least in XI you had to always be aware instead of flipping your "Care switch" on once or twice a dungeon (If you even have to do that these days outside of coil)

It's a different form of combat, they both have ups and downs. I'm just in favor of one style over the other, just my personal opinion.

the FFXI combat of using your strongest WS when you get 100 tp using all your JAs when they are up?

The mere fact that if you spammed all your JA's when they were up would often end in a giant detriment to your character is a good one...It wasn't just about your damage dealing abillities it was about utillity.

Let's take theif for a good example (The best use of abillity timing would really be beastmaster, alot of thought went into a big fight for beastmasters) You can't just SATA whenever you want, members need to be prepared the monster has to be in a favorable position and the timing has to be right to avoid a bad abillity going off during your attempt to SATA.

Knowing when and what abillities were best to Aura steal was also a big thing, knowing the best time to use Hide when flee could be a boon to a flailing party due to links. Knowing your Utsusemi timers well to be able to tank at a moments notice, putting up your status effect bolts when required.

Unless your were lolibri spamming you couldn't get away with face-rolling your keyboard.

[Gilthas]

Oh please the only time you use your abillities reactivley is if your saving up for a DPS spike and even then more often than not your better off keeping everything off cooldown instead of thinking tactically.

So basically, the same as FFXI?

What RNG is in XI that isn't in XIV?

That was my point. That's pretty much the only difficulty that FFXI had.

Just because in XI you weren't running around the monster like a chicken with your head cut off doesn't mean positioning and other key factors weren't important to battle. You had to actually worry about things like environmental hazards, linking monsters, everything could be a threat.

FFXIV has enviromental hazards too actually. The only argument you have here is that FFXI had linking monsters, but positioning is far more important in FFXIV considering that in FFXI you were either entirely stationary during combat (applied to the majority of jobs) or were kiting the mob (which I'd argue is a more accurate qualifier for "running like a chicken with your head cut off").

Outside of Instanced boss battles monster themselves aren't even dangerous nor interesting encounters TP moves and mechanics are litteraly ignored because they are so impotent that even bothering with dodging would just be a waste. At least in XI you had to always be aware instead of flipping your "Care switch" on once or twice a dungeon (If you even have to do that these days outside of coil)

Yeah, I never see people die in this game. *rolls eyes*

[Jynx]

*rolls eyes*

Hey you like XIV's combat, good for you. Doesn't mean you have to stretch so hard to compare the two.

If your getting killed in XIV anywhere outside of a few choice primals and coil I'm not sure what your doing besides litteraly not paying attention.

[Tupsi]

The problem with using this argument in favour of FFXI's battle system is that the same happens in FFXIV.

To be fair there's not many reactive skills in XIV, especially unlike in XI, there's a native delay that's much more noticable in XIV. There's also very few situations where you can actually adapt because a dramatic phase shift would "stress" players and yoshida doesn't want that. So in most content in XIV, when monsters enter new phases via script it's usually much of the same: You're either dodging something or trying to find a particular gimmick. XI also has the benefit of being how say XIV 1.x used to be, you had quite a lot of more choices of skills which could be situational.

For example, Geomancer is an amazing support that likely will never happen in XIV because it's purely a reactive and positional based job.

[Gilthas]

To be fair there's not many reactive skills in XIV, especially unlike in XI, there's a native delay that's much more noticable in XIV. There's also very few situations where you can actually adapt because a dramatic phase shift would "stress" players and yoshida doesn't want that. So in most content in XIV, when monsters enter new phases via script it's usually much of the same: You're either dodging something or trying to find a particular gimmick. XI also has the benefit of being how say XIV 1.x used to be, you had quite a lot of more choices of skills which could be situational.

For example, Geomancer is an amazing support that likely will never happen in XIV because it's purely a reactive and positional based job.

Actually, to be really fair, there are far more reactive abilities in FFXIV than there was when FFXI was capped at 75 (can't comment on how the game became post-WotC, YEARS after release). Both tanks and all physical DPS have innate abilities to either stun or silence. Technically SMN and SCH has them too via their pets.

And quit with the "too much stress" baloney argument already. FFXIV has more dramatic shifts in combat than FFXI ever did when I played.

[Exstal]

And quit with the "too much stress" baloney argument already. FFXIV has more dramatic shifts in combat than FFXI ever did when I played.

It's not Tupsi's words. It's Naoki's stance. He doesn't want to burden the player too much. Which he might change depending on census.

[Tupsi]

It's not Tupsi's words. It's Naoki's stance. He doesn't want to burden the player too much. Which he might change depending on census.

This. It's partially why they cut down the skill and spell list to begin with for example.

[Zumi]

The big difference between XI and XIV combat wise at least is all about pacing.

XI: Use your skills reactively, adapt to the situation. Combat was much slower paced focused around auto attacks all skills were only (Often long) cooldowns, some people don't like the slow pace.

XIV: Use your skills ALL THE TIME, there is little to "React" outside scripted events that make you step outside the painted death lines. The only real difficulty is if you continue to optimize your DPS while running around the field.

Personally I enjoyed the slower paced more methodical combat. I'm not really a fan of ramming my 1-2-3 macros switching it up with a 4-5 every once in a while making sure all my cooldowns are used and not really thinking about the combat itself I'm focused on the skillbar.

How is that different then then FFXIV, the FFXI combat of using your strongest WS when you get 100 tp using all your JAs when they are up? Don't say MB and Skillchains because those died out completely during ToAU expansion 2006 when people figured out it was more damage to not wait for scs and mbs and use TP right when you got 100.