Why can't we have jobs with this level of depth and customization in FFXIV?

[Redemption]

I think that FFXIV being different then FFXI is fine.

FFXI is having a 1 free week for anyone who has ever had a FFXI account from Wed 10-17th and I think you can download the newest expansion SoA for free to try out. You could actually try that game out again if you and see if it was nostalgia or not.

So if you played FFXI my question to you is if you feel this way, why Leave FFXI? You came to FFXIV for something new right, so why do you want the same stuff that you left from?

I mean why leave FFXI if you want the same thing, no point in that.

This game hasn't even got a first expansion and yeah it is a fun game.

Seriously, stop saying this... FFXI bears no resemblance to what it was like in its prime and is now running similar mechanics to what FFXIV is using. This is why fans of FFXI are not playing FFXI. I personally, would be over there right now if Seekers of Adoulin hadn't destroyed the already wrecked game in the aftermath of abyssea. Besides, theres no reason why good concepts from FFXI can't come over as long as they work in the environment here.

[Sapphic]

I didn't realize ARR was released for 4 years already. Boy, how time flies!

It only seems like a couple aof weeks ago that they celebrated 1 year!

Some cant get over that FFXIV ARR is a totally different game to FFXIV 1.x.

On topic, it is very hard to have deeply complex jobs/classes without a) making them a necessity and b) unwanted for most content. Something FFXI failed badly on. So many jobs, and so many of them not wanted compared to a small number of mandatory jobs, eg BRD and stun SCH.

Also, as happened even with FFXI, more depth came with expansions. So see what 3.0 brings. Yoshi stated prior to the expac they will not be doing anything really different or new frmo the standard design, that may change with the xpac.

[Luvbunny]

Well to be fair, FFXI does have a few good battle systems, namely Voidwatch, which is FAR more superior that this absolute mess of The Hunt from FF14. I see no reasons why Yoshi cannot "steal" as many great stuffs from FF11 and implement it here with some tweakings. Lord knows, FF11 is copying a boatload of FF14's features in their game now, which is a welcome change. The old FFXI is trash, absolute garbage of a game, so glad it is no longer exist. The "new" FFXI did amazing job, Seeker of Adoulin was a hot mess when it launched, but the new team did fantastic job in the past one year alone and changed FFXI for the better. So many great features added to make FFXI far more enjoyable and accessible, and yet still obliterate all noobies who try to brute force tank and spank SoA endgame contents.

The new team is hard at work to balance other support jobs but I understand it takes time to untangle the absolute mess of spaghetti code and crappy ideas from "old school FFXI". They added so many new features to Red Mage, Corsair and Geomancer - though they need to work harder on this to replace people's opinion "we cannot win if we don't have Bard in our group" mentality. Give it another year and I would think FFXI will be completely modernized up to par to FF14. The amount of contents they add every month is very good for a game that is 11 years old. Jobs balance still a big issue there - I realize it is not easy to balance over 20 jobs.

[Tupsi]

It only seems like a couple aof weeks ago that they celebrated 1 year!

Some cant get over that FFXIV ARR is a totally different game to FFXIV 1.x.

You do realize majority of ARR's systems originated in 1.0-1.22..right? The only "difference" is how it's impelemented in certain areas, otherwise no, it's not totally different - if you touched any of the jobs that isn't ACN/SMN/SCH, you're playing something that was created and existed up to 4 years ago. Even ACN was already in the game but not usable for players.

Them streamlining certain content doesn't mean it's "compeletly different", a lot of the lore is still very much the same, just reformatted to fit the "5 years later".

[Redemption]

Well to be fair, FFXI does have a few good battle systems, namely Voidwatch, which is FAR more superior that this absolute mess of The Hunt from FF14. I see no reasons why Yoshi cannot "steal" as many great stuffs from FF11 and implement it here with some tweakings. Lord knows, FF11 is copying a boatload of FF14's features in their game now, which is a welcome change. The old FFXI is trash, absolute garbage of a game, so glad it is no longer exist. The "new" FFXI did amazing job, Seeker of Adoulin was a hot mess when it launched, but the new team did fantastic job in the past one year alone and changed FFXI for the better. So many great features added to make FFXI far more enjoyable and accessible, and yet still obliterate all noobies who try to brute force tank and spank SoA endgame contents.

The new team is hard at work to balance other support jobs but I understand it takes time to untangle the absolute mess of spaghetti code and crappy ideas from "old school FFXI". They added so many new features to Red Mage, Corsair and Geomancer - though they need to work harder on this to replace people's opinion "we cannot win if we don't have Bard in our group" mentality. Give it another year and I would think FFXI will be completely modernized up to par to FF14. The amount of contents they add every month is very good for a game that is 11 years old. Jobs balance still a big issue there - I realize it is not easy to balance over 20 jobs.

Luvbunny, I may have said this before but you were always playing the wrong game with xi (I argued with you on the ffxi forums a few times). FFXI was a certain type of game, and it did what it did well... VERY well. Changing that with abyssea and later on SoA was an affront to people who loved what xi was trying to do in the first place. It was NOT a garbage game it was one of the few mmos that captured the dream mmorpgs were originally chasing. I have to accept that same factor about ffxiv, that it was designed with a different purpose in mind and you should have been accepting of that in ffxi (I have no idea why you stuck around it when you hated its core designs). I accept that ffxiv has a different goal from what ffxi had, but I think there is room to add some things that would appeal to people like me while still keeping that goal at heart. Stop insulting mah game >.>

[Luvbunny]

Luvbunny, I may have said this before but you were always playing the wrong game with xi (I argued with you on the ffxi forums a few times). FFXI was a certain type of game, and it did what it did well... VERY well. Changing that with abyssea and later on SoA was an affront to people who loved what xi was trying to do in the first place. It was NOT a garbage game it was one of the few mmos that captured the dream mmorpgs were originally chasing.

LOL - hello again to you Well I do not have any "rose colored tinted glass" memory of the grand awesome-sauce that is "old school FFXI". Let me spell it for you in one easy sentence: the reason FFXI community works, because back then everyone and their moms are stuck in a rut in a shitshow that forced you to be nice with each other or you are not progressing at all and solo-ing or "play how you want" aka log and play is an unheard concept. You are stuck in a server with a bunch of people who can't progress AT ALL unless you bite the bullet STFU and play your roles and work together. It's a total gangbuster crap but it works wonderfully in forcing people to work together, thus creating many fond good memories because deep down, we all believe everyone is nice, and we like to do nice things to help each other and share good memories.

Now let's bring back the "Awesome Amazing Ding Ding" that is old school FFXI shall we?:
- You are stuck in party with jobs XYZ, no party, no progress, enjoy your LFP while watching TV for hours unless you are Princess Bard and Red Mage.
- After several hours of waiting and shouting, you now have a party, ragtag combo of whatever jobs, not ideal but hey, you ain't going to complaints after several hours of waiting. So what do you do? You spend as little as 15 mnts to find a camp, or 30 mnts trekking to "dangerous" location where if one member is too dumb to function, you ain't progressing, on the way to the camp.
- OK, so now we are all here, let's have some fun!! Except the area is packed, and mobs are slim picking, competing with other group. Off you go, move to another camp. Add 15-25 minutes of "moving to another area, let's hope y'all have sneak invisible".
- After an hour of playing, your healer is leaving, or your Bard, or your Red Mage. Or god forbid someone leveled up and now the mob is "too low level" for that one person but new camp would be too high-level for most of the members. Crap, back to finding new members.
- Months later, or even a year later, you have one job at 75. Huzzah!! Endgame!!! Yup, start becoming a slave for your "elite" LS members since unless you "perform favors" - you are not going to get that item you so really want, gotta put points, and make sure to help all the "core members" of Linkshell to get their first dip, after all you are just a newbie...
- What's that? You hate grinding? Seriously? Well go play another game, cuz FFXI old school is all about grinding everything till you are too sick to function.
- "Learning Your Job" equates to sit your ass in camping spot chit chat while you do your basic button rotation for months and months. Obviously you will learn something that prepares you to function at endgame, WRONG!!!
- The so called glorious amazing "Chains of Promathia" is nothing but "fetching quest" that last for hours... And you better hope and pray you can make a static, or you have very little hope progressing at all. Start practicing at throwing your control at something and channelling your nerd rage at your cat.
- There is no such thing as "customization" with sub jobs. Deal with it. Please don't entertain your entire party with Pld/Whm, Whm/Pld, Dark/Whm, War/Blm, or any other "creative" ideas - your server will not put up with your silly ideas. You subs XYZ, end of story.
- You better love WAITING, because everything takes a long time for no other purpose than adding more time sink. Yup, making you do idiotic nonsensical stuffs for no other than "extending gameplay" and make you feel you achieve something by waiting 10 minutes to ride a boat.

[Morningstar1337]

It's a total gangbuster crap but it works wonderfully in forcing people to work together, thus creating many fond good memories because deep down, we all believe everyone is nice, and we like to do nice things to help each other and share good memories.

So you;re implying hat XI is idealistic and XIV is cynical?

[Darki]

You do realize majority of ARR's systems originated in 1.0-1.22..right? The only "difference" is how it's impelemented in certain areas, otherwise no, it's not totally different - if you touched any of the jobs that isn't ACN/SMN/SCH, you're playing something that was created and existed up to 4 years ago. Even ACN was already in the game but not usable for players.

Them streamlining certain content doesn't mean it's "compeletly different", a lot of the lore is still very much the same, just reformatted to fit the "5 years later".

I'm glad someone brought up 1.0. 1.0 had far more complexity then 2.0 and onward. 1.0 had what?...64 different kinds of material? that's just one example and I could be wrong on the number.
the point i'm making is the complexity was blamed for 1.0's unpopularity so SE made a hard left turn into simplicity as a model for 2.0 and onward. So I doubt SE will add complexity to this game any time soon. At least not as mandatory.

[Zumi]

Seriously, stop saying this... FFXI bears no resemblance to what it was like in its prime and is now running similar mechanics to what FFXIV is using. This is why fans of FFXI are not playing FFXI. I personally, would be over there right now if Seekers of Adoulin hadn't destroyed the already wrecked game in the aftermath of abyssea. Besides, theres no reason why good concepts from FFXI can't come over as long as they work in the environment here.

How do you know you wouldn't like current FFXI unless you tried it? It has a bunch of sidegrades that you people keep going on and on about. In FFXI since seekers came out they capped the ilvl at 119 and just keep releasing more and more 119 gear every patch. The game is overflowing with 119 gear giving you this choice about what you get which I know a bunch of people keep posting they want on the FFXIV forums a bunch of gear with the same ilvl.

[Luvbunny]

What Abysea did "Amazing, Awesome, Fantastic, Truly Game Breaking":
- Atmas, customize according to your need. Play with it, collect it, experiment, above all HAVE FUN!
- Endgame galores, how you want to "solve the problem", up to you my friend. Now you get to fight tons of Notorious Monster, from the ones that has timer to the ones you pop with key items.
- OPTIONS! End of Story. Want to evasion tank? Go for it! Want to use your pet to tank, have at it!! Want to use Paladin to tank, enjoy!!
- Small group friendly!! Granted this throw options to the windows when people only wants thief/ninja, blm/brd, whm, blue, ninja and warrior. But hey, now you can just kill stuffs with 3 other people or 5 other people, or an alliance.
- A chance to know your jobs and push it to the limits using Atmas. Blue Mage, Dancer and Thief want to solo? Summoner, Puppetmaster and Beastmaster wants to solo?
- Creative use of your jobs, maximize for minimum time. Warrior Fell Cleave party, Black Mage Mana Burn Party, Blue's Charge Whiskers solo farm. If you know your jobs, and want to experiment, have at it!!

That's just the good part. The bad part of Abyssea is SPEED LEVEL, while it is a great idea, it creates many players who do not bother to learn their jobs and how to play at its fullest potential. Just like everything else, people get lazy, they get to 99, fully merited, but have ZERO ideas on how to play their jobs.