Why can't we have jobs with this level of depth and customization in FFXIV?

[cryptic_angel]

From what I understand, people want the ability to choose from a bunch of different "styles". They also want all them to be viable.

I don't think it's a worthy venture because it'll only take a week or two to figure out which is the best style and you're a moron for not using said style. I saw this in another thread, "What if there was a STR specialized DRG and Crit specialized DRG? What happens when the theory-crafters figure out that Crit specialized shits all over STR spec in DPS and you decide you want to be STR spec? Guess what, you're booted for being STR spec. Come back when you're crit spec."

Other than that, I've never seen any of those people suggest a system that couldwork without basically ruining the balance SE seems to want to maintain. Although, the common retort is, "it's up to the devs to make it happen."

If I had to pick between a buffet where only a handful of food was good or vanilla paste cafe, I would take the buffet. I get your point and I agree with the notion that most raiders and min/max-ers would play the optimal setup; but, in a game where we can switch classes on a whim, I would enjoy playing "neat" classes, that might unperformed by 8-10%, in the myriad of other content outside of raiding.

I don't seen this happening - the support role.


Reason being is population balancing.

We're already leaning heavily on the side of DPS, so much that it's a 2:1 ratio in favor of DPS due to the role's popularity (or a 5/3 ratio in ST). Without expanding the base light party to 5, I don't see a way they could impliment it into duty finder or fights in general without worsening the bottle-neck issue with DPS we currently have.

I would like to see more support functions for classes, however. A straight support class? Not so much.

I'd like to see something along the lines of skill chains, however. If it can be balanced. One of the problems with FFXI's skillchain system is that it did narrow the viable field of classes initially due to players simply exploiting the most efficient group to skillchain with, and this problem repeatedly came up.

There would also be the concern on how it would work in this game. Fights are faster paced, combat isn't the same as it was in FFXI by a Wide Margin. Combat was a slow build and skillchains were to make use of these separate slow builds in a form of teamwork. The entire concept would likely not be recognizable from how we would remember it. Not to mention the difficulty coordinating such. Perhaps specific off-gdc skills could be used in tandem to make specific effects? There is a lot to think on as far as that subject goes.

I think a debuff class would have to come in the form how brd works in this game. Utilizing stances, modes, or dps/hps/tps losses to debuff/buff could allow for hybridization and we could see a class the mechanically would work different in a static raid group than how it works in DF or CT/ST.

I agree, any iterations of skill chains and debuff classes are most likely not going to be reconizable by ff11 players.

[Risvertasashi]

Like I already mentioned: Puppetmaster (or any job really) having a lot of setup and configuration possibilities is completely meaningless when only a very select few were viable. Puppetmaster didn't even have a viable endgame build. It was just a novelty job that was never taken seriously.

But there's no reason to say any such jobs will necessarily repeat that in XIV. And cryptic angle said it better than I can:

If I had to pick between a buffet where only a handful of food was good or vanilla paste cafe, I would take the buffet. I get your point and I agree with the notion that most raiders and min/max-ers would play the optimal setup; but, in a game where we can switch classes on a whim, I would enjoy playing "neat" classes, that might unperformed by 8-10%, in the myriad of other content outside of raiding.

And I'm expecting there to be more and more content outside of raiding as the game ages.

[Hyrist]

I think a debuff class would have to come in the form how brd works in this game. Utilizing stances, modes, or dps/hps/tps losses to debuff/buff could allow for hybridization and we could see a class the mechanically would work different in a static raid group than how it works in DF or CT/ST.

I agree, any iterations of skill chains and debuff classes are most likely not going to be reconizable by ff11 players.

I could see that be utalized in the same box slot we would have in a DPS. Heck, I might like to see Red Mage applied with those concepts, something fluid that could shift to meet the needs of the party/raid/group they're in.

Doesn't mean things can't be even better than now.

I don't like vertical progression so much, but I can't argue that, as you point out, it works. In the case of jobs, however, adding what we're seeking here doesn't require changes to the existing ones, or in any way subtract from the current systems. There is only the potential to add more to the game.

No, that's fine. I agree. I do feel, however, that such changes should be done with all due caution, and to balance that from the onset takes time.

This philosophy is part of the reason why I am in support of a Public Test Server as well, so we don't run into issues like we did with Hunts.

I just don't tolerate people interjecting into a conversation with the tone that they are better than those who've taken the time to disseminate issues. Again, it's bitter individuals who feel that no leeway should be given at all and negativity is both warranted and necessary. That top-down mentality, in my view, should be ostracized and unwelcome on all subjects and approaches.

I'll make a safe assumption in stating we're not here to ruin everyone else's time.