Hair and Glamour Restrictions

[Wylde]

Didn't want to make two separate threads since the hair thing is simple:



What!? I know things like this aren't top priority to "fix" but it sucks I really liked the hair style but it does that with alot of gear

As for glamours... why the restrictions on gear?? Makes no sense... can I not glamour my alchemist robe to my BLM because I will confuse people?? Sorry if this has already been brought up but... first MMO I've played with such a strict restriction on glamours.

[Ilitsa]

Clipping, as annoying as it is, is an issue with any mmo that I've ever played. as for the glamour thing, I agree it's restrictive, but take a look at WoW's Transmogrification system, which is essentially the same;

Can only transmog something you can equip
Can only transmog green or higher quality gear (Would be like only being able to glamour pink or higher here)
Can only transmog plate to plate, cloth to cloth, etc.
Items with no classifcation cannot be transmogged at all
Items with white or gray cannot be transmogged at all under any circumstance (Even though they have some of the nicest, simplest designs.
Legendary quality items cannot be transmogged at all under any circumstance

[kyuven]

I think part of the reason you can't glamour class-specific gear is to avoid having people play a "shell game" in PVP.
"But you can tell what someone's class is when they do X!" Except people prioritize via vision first, so even LOOKING like a low priority target when you're a high priority target gives you an advantage.

Other than that, it's also because some armor pieces were designed to work with specific other armor pieces. For example, Flanchards weren't meant to be used with cowled robes. If you think the current amount of clipping is bad...yeesh

[Riviere]

I think part of the reason you can't glamour class-specific gear is to avoid having people play a "shell game" in PVP.
"But you can tell what someone's class is when they do X!" Except people prioritize via vision first, so even LOOKING like a low priority target when you're a high priority target gives you an advantage.

This doesn't apply to this game as the job's name replaces the character's name.

This is more about people having sticks up their butts.

[kyuven]

This doesn't apply to this game as the job's name replaces the character's name.

Again, that falls into "but you can tell what someone's class is when you do X!" Your character's model is typically more visually striking than your name plate. In addition, the draw distance on character models is longer than the draw distance on nameplates. To see what i mean just go to any S rank hunt that's as big as a house and see how long it is til you can see its nameplate. (or target it)

[Riviere]

Again, that falls into "but you can tell what someone's class is when you do X!" Your character's model is typically more visually striking than your name plate. In addition, the draw distance on character models is longer than the draw distance on nameplates. To see what i mean just go to any S rank hunt that's as big as a house and see how long it is til you can see its nameplate. (or target it)

We already can hide our class with the current system, so this doesn't apply either.

[Shioban]

Each and every developer has a different way of approaching hair and it's problems, FFXIV ARR went for a low-performance, easy to design/implement and adjust method, albeit at the risk of clipping.




Almost ALL of the hairstyles that came out in 2.0 were short (for a good reason), it was only after large players requests that they dabbled a bit further.

Hair Clipping has some possible solutions. But from a developers point of view, it's very very difficult to avoid clipping, especially when you're encountering numerous gear types/shapes and possibilities. Long hair in a game like this using skinned weights as opposed to independent physical hair simulations, clipping IS going to occur, unless countermeasures are taken such as;


The easiest one being mesh deformation, where the hair simply takes into account the surrounding topology and whether it's more appropriate for the hair to sit over or "tucked into" the piece of gear. There's currently a system already in place (pending they carried it over from 1.0) that was developed to accomodate different gear types.

Simply put, if you have a pair of long trousers, and the character wore a pair of boots, the topology of the trousers would "tuck" neatly into the boots automatically, saving a metric ton of time and effort on the developers part, leaving room for creative freedom to experiment with all sorts of gear shapes and sizes.




The reason I'm explaining this is because the same thing could be used on hair, but that being said it would have it's own share of issues.

As all of the hair is rigged to the Head>Neck>Torso/Shoulders (just like a piece of clothing is), this isn't a particularly easy task without causing the topology to bend, stretch and distort.



If the hair was an independent physical simulation then the problem would be solved, but having 20-100 characters+ on screen at once with independent physical hair would be a nightmare to optimise. (With the PS3 currently it's just not worth the implementation time/effort).



"What do you mean rigged hair?"

Basicly, 3D animation relies on the animator to 'assign' what areas of the model are assigned to what 'bone' so, obviously you want the 3D faces for the head to be different from the 3D faces for the neck when you're animating.

Essentially you 'paint' what areas you want to be manipulated by each bone (fading the colours into one another for a smooth realistic body-type frame).
As shown below, the "painted" areas are where the skeleton will know to manipulate the 3D model.




Hair (for the most part in games) follows this rule also, where certain segments of the hair will be weighted to the head, neck, back or any other joints that are assigned for the animation skeleton.

"Why does that matter again?"

Basicly, the hair is stuck in one position, it may animate/move a little bit giving the impression that it's "free flowing" but it's still rigged to the body, an independnt physical simulation would not have this issue.

But as you can see that would have it's own problems;







As for the Glamour Restrictions, that's just obvious.

As liberal as FFXIV has become in terms of gear and the overall world/design composition, it's nice to have some integrity that tanks will look like tanks for the most part and casters like casters.

It's a silly restriction by this point, but from the developers point of view I can see why they'd want to keep it restricted this way.

[kyuven]

We already can hide our class with the current system, so this doesn't apply either.

Exactly. But what I'm talking about goes beyond hiding your class by wearing something anyone can wear, and going straight into disguising yourself as another class. With the right gear equipped, a WHM with PLD glamours could pass as one.
On its own it isn't a big deal, but shell game tactics will take advantage of it, by having the tank decked out in BLM gear, the healer in brd gear, and the dps in tank gear, it messes with the opposition's initial tactics.
But more realistically, it probably has a lot to do with animation shortcuts and clipping issues.

[Riviere]

To solve the hair clipping issues, they would have to do what TERA does and create an alternate hairstyle to all the long ones like this:



But I don't think they're going to do it.

[Riviere]

Exactly. But what I'm talking about goes beyond hiding your class by wearing something anyone can wear, and going straight into disguising yourself as another class. With the right gear equipped, a WHM with PLD glamours could pass as one.
On its own it isn't a big deal, but shell game tactics will take advantage of it, by having the tank decked out in BLM gear, the healer in brd gear, and the dps in tank gear, it messes with the opposition's initial tactics.
But more realistically, it probably has a lot to do with animation shortcuts and clipping issues.

You mean like what we can already do with the current system?



It's already possible to look like other classes or just have everyone glamour into swimsuits.