Hunt Mob Entitlement?

[Maero]

I always call out if i see hunts, only thing that annoys me is those that reset them and in turn i miss out in seals i would have otherwise received

[Noshpan]

There is a linkshell on Leviathan that feels entitled to every single hunt mark on the world server. Even after the recent changes, they still go out of their way to reset a target if others got to it first. And if another group downs it before they do, they commence with the butthurt rage. Behavior such as those in said linkshell are reasons why many others either a: don't participate in hunts anymore or not call out locations.

But no one is entitle for others to wait for a mark. If you get to it in time, then that is great, If you don't, there is always another time. I don't get mad if I miss out on a target (especially if it's one I need). I just wait for next time.

[GalkaBikini]

Resetting is against the TOS. No one resets on my server anymore.

[Trell]

I think that expecting people to engage in this feature the way you think SE intended is even more unreasonable than expecting every group on top of a mark to wait forever for every straggler to get there. The way hunts are played is the way we as a majority group decided to play them. I'm sorry, I don't think that is going to change. I can see why people vent about it, but no one will suddenly decide that you are right and stop using the means available to them to get as many seals in as little time as possible. You could say the system is being exploited, but that's just MMOs for you! Players will generally opt for any way to mitigate the repetitive grind developers bake into their games and it's a little odd to blame players for it.

As for the Ninja thing, honestly, if you are part of multiple hunting LS' and an FC which all communicate fluidly, it's almost impossible not to know the location of the next A Rank mark within seconds of it being discovered. It takes a long time for a single group to kill an A-Rank, if they manage to at all. By then, chances are someone will have seen the fight and called it out. In the end, it still will not have a been a single party killing the mob, since there's no claim system.

General M.O. for large hunting groups: If you find an A Rank mark, you call out to your group with the coordinates. When the whole group is in the right zone and at a safe proximity to the mark, you shout out to the zone, your FC and all your hunting LS'. Then you consider how far you are from the nearest teleporter, add the 20 or so seconds it'll usually take for the message to spread to the masses, and simply call out a reasonable pull time. You don't have to rack you brain over it. Just the act of doing so sets people's expectations and eliminates a lot of eventual whining.

Occasionally, there will be players who pull marks as soon as they get to them, disrupting everything under some supposedly principled pretense that this is the way it should be done, and people are selfish for wanting to make them wait (I always find that backward logic disturbing). I found that it often has nothing to do with principles. It's always cowardly sad people who simply crave notoriety and like the idea of affecting so many other people negatively and especially, anonymously behind an avatar. They're usually easy to spot because a bunch of people are constantly complaining about them. When someone like that is around, you simply make sure they are not part of any of your hunting LS'or FC, and you stop using /shout until you don't see them around any more.

All that said, although this is a relatively fair and inclusive system that insures most people get good progress, it doesn't help people who are semi afk and not actively hunting - leeching, so to speak. It doesn't help people who don't bother joining hunting LS' or FCs. It doesn't help people who don't yet know all the maps and the best shortcuts to get to places (ex: Mark in Mid to Northern LLN? Use Upper Decks --> Tempest Gate). This means there will always be stragglers who may complain because they couldn't get to the mark in a reasonable time, while blaming it on early pulls. It is impossible to include and please every single person in a fight, but we can make an effort to include a reasonable amount of people. I don't see how that hurts anyone. The only exception I can see is if there are multiple A Rank marks up simultaneously and things may need to be rushed. That doesn't happen that much though.

To notify your party, target the mark and:
/p <t> sighted at <pos>

To notify your FC and LS', target the mark and:
/fc <t> sighted at <pos>
/l1 <t> sighted at <pos>
/l2 <t> sighted at <pos>
/l3 <t> sighted at <pos>

To transmit clickable coordinates to you party, which you have received from an LS, your FC or a shout: click on the coordinates to get the flag on your map and:
/p A Rank Mark sighted at <flag>

To everyone else:
/sh A Rank Mark sighted at <flag>
/fc A Rank Mark sighted at <flag>
/l1 A Rank Mark sighted at <flag>
/l2 A Rank Mark sighted at <flag>

It may not be what some people think hunting should be like, but it is still hunting. It is still "Search and kill". It just happens to be a large coordinated group effort. Getting frustrated and disruptive because you'd like it to be 8 people instead 60 won't make people any less pissed at you for pulling at an unreasonable time. So doing it that way is not fun or fulfilling for some of you and in your eyes, that may justify pulling whenever you want, but it seems that the majority of people seem to disagree. Perhaps most people find some fulfillment in progressing faster too. The kicker is that this isn't even a zero sum game! People still get their seals and yet still complain. If this vocal minority feels "oppressed" by this, all I can say is wow - First World Problems...

[JustPlainLucas]

There's only so much blame you can place on the community. You have to blame SE themselves for implementing the system they way they did and not foreseeing this happen. Considering spawn times and conditions are so erratic and it takes several hundred seals to buy anything good, it would take far too long to get decent rewards if everyone hunting the mobs hunted them the right way. So, the community practically implemented their own fix to try to share in the rewards. The downside is, not everyone agrees, thus the problem.

[Tashigi]

It's fine.
But it's a lot nicer to allow others to contribute, as well.

[Maero]

Resetting is against the TOS. No one resets on my server anymore.

Exactly, and i shouted out to them the exact thing, and they were like meh no big deal.
So that day instead of 20 seals i would of for sure got, i only got 2 out of that hunt.

And Ganth which ls are you refering to FE?
The hunt ls2 i am in do no such thing, we just help each other out usually

[Raze_Krauser]

In the end, some have opted to show common courtesy instead of being cutthroat about it.

Well that pretty much it, and i agree.....but you are NOT 'entitled' to that courtesy...it's given, not taken.

[Souljacker]

This is wrong. Naoki has said he did not expect people to do what they did (hunt LS, alerting entire server), which clearly means they didn't intend for everyone, their fathers, and their dogs to join in on the hunt.

This is why they should consider opening up a public test server. The players would have found the weaknesses, and SE could have made some different choices before implementing the system. It's gotten slightly better than it was with this last patch, but the rewards are still too high and the content is still too polarizing. Some servers have organized themselves, but that even that has brought its own level of drama. If you are even perceived as twitching the wrong way you are banned and blacklisted. It's as much to keep people out as it is to bring people in.

I hope that they obsolete this content soon and come up with a better method of casual progression. This was too much, too fast, and it should never have trivialized the level of effort needed to gear out in coil-class equipment.

[Welsper59]

This is why they should consider opening up a public test server. The players would have found the weaknesses, and SE could have made some different choices before implementing the system. It's gotten slightly better than it was with this last patch, but the rewards are still too high and the content is still too polarizing. Some servers have organized themselves, but that even that has brought its own level of drama. If you are even perceived as twitching the wrong way you are banned and blacklisted. It's as much to keep people out as it is to bring people in.

I hope that they obsolete this content soon and come up with a better method of casual progression. This was too much, too fast, and it should never have trivialized the level of effort needed to gear out in coil-class equipment.

PT servers generally won't be enough to really show certain content issues. The Hunt problem would definitely not have been found, due to the amount of players necessary at a given time. Not to mention the fact that you would also have to have even more players to be the "outside", so that they would experience the hate that would result. If anything, the PT servers would have reaffirmed their notion that it was acceptable (due to a much lower active population of players at any given time).

Seriously, public test servers really don't do much to reveal problems that involve needing a huge number of active players at any given time (like a live server would typically have). I know this because, for one example, I would frequent the PTR with WoW for years pre-patch times and issues concerning things outside of mechanics and bugs (mobs falling off the terrain, mobs/items not showing properly, etc) was rarely found problematic due to lower participation numbers compared to a live server. What are the odds that a much less populated game like FFXIV would have players spending every day and night doing Hunts 24/7 on a server that will not carryover their efforts? I'd say the likelihood is zero. All you would find are the folks that just want to see what the new content is like (log in to test servers to do a few things then never go back to it again), people who want to test raids, and people who want to find out what sort of things they should try to buyout on the marketboards to gain an economical advantage (I'm in this group).