SE Forgot to Add YouTube as a Requirement on Game Packaging/System Requirements?

[cryptic_angel]

The "set up your own group" suggestion works both ways. The DF is for everyone. Not just people who've already mastered the content. If the chance of getting paired up with new players who may not know the ins & outs is unacceptable to someone, then why gamble with DF? Why not recruit friends and/or set up PF for it? Make sure you never get grouped with inept players again.

I typically don't do random DF groups because I hate wasting my time with players who play poorly. I play with my like minded people because I don't want to be rude to the DF group when I want to run the dungeon in 10 mins or less.

Also, as it pertains to DF, there is a difference between a player wanting to run fast and a player who has no idea what is going on. The player who wants to run fast is not going to slow three other people down and take up more time than needed. One new player in the dungeon has the potential to hold back the entire group.

I would say the new player is being selfish if they expect to do sub par dps/hps/tanking, not know where to go, and expect people to explain the fight to them. The player who wants to go faster is not adding extra time to the dungeon. The inept player is most likely already adding more time to a dungeon via bad gear or bad dps/hps/tanking. The player new to the dungeon could at least hear the explanation on youtube instead of expecting to hear an explanation from a party member.

Most of the time, it just seems like the new player is lazy and rather get an explanation from the party or carried by the party rather than doing the research themselves.

I think it's inconsiderate to use DF and NOT expect new people/people who don't know the fight, as DF is the primary way new people even get content done, if any fool goes in expecting an expert group, they set it on them selves to be let down when they find someone that needs teaching, if you only want experienced people, then you make a party and ask for only those.

I typically don't do random DF groups because I hate wasting my time with players who play poorly. I play with my like minded people because I don't want to be rude to the DF group when I want to run the dungeon in 10 mins or less.

Also, maybe those players would down more content if they were not so lazy and actually researched fights. I am not interested in helping those who don't want to help themselves.

[KaiKatzchen]

The player new to the dungeon could at least hear the explanation on youtube instead of expecting to hear an explanation from a party member.

Most of the time, it just seems like the new player is lazy and rather get an explanation from the party or carried by the party rather than doing the research themselves.

But you see that's a double edged sword, some people might think more experienced players are being lazy buy not explaining something or help a player figure something out that might take a whole minute. It can go either way.

All I know is this, when this game came out none of us knew what to do, and there were no videos at the time to 'teach us' the right way. We worked together. got advice and ran it 20 times, dying most until we learning the trick. No one told us 'go watch a youtube video and then comeback and stop wasting my time'.

So why are people getting on new players for doing the exact same thing that we do when new content comes out? The first day Hullbreaker came out, did people watch videos? No because there were none, we bashed our heads into a wall until we figured it out. When someone we knew did beat it: 'oh oh how you did it, give us advice etc...' and then we would take that and beat it with the advice.

Honestly to me sometimes it just feels like a 'do as we say, not as we do' hypocrisy. They are simply doing what we did, figuring it out buy doing, like we did when they game started, and how we do it every time new content comes out. Because to them, even if it's been out for 5 months, it's new content.

[cryptic_angel]

But you see that's a double edged sword, some people might think more experienced players are being lazy buy not explaining something or help a player figure something out that might take a whole minute. It can go either way.

Not wanting to explain something does not make a veteran player lazy. The player already did the leg work to learn the fights one way or another. A new player's unwillingness to watch a fight is lazy. A vet player not wanting to explain fights every time they use the DF is understandable.

By your logic of the double edge sword:

Player A put in x effort to learn a fight.
Player B put in 0 effort to learn the fight.

Now player A has to put in more effort to teach player B. Player A already put in the time to learn the fight. Player A is not being lazy be refusing to explain stuff.

All I know is this, when this game came out none of us knew what to do, and there were no videos at the time to 'teach us' the right way. We worked together. got advice and ran it 20 times, dying most until we learning the trick. No one told us 'go watch a youtube video and then comeback and stop wasting my time'.

So why are people getting on new players for doing the exact same thing that we do when new content comes out? The first day Hullbreaker came out, did people watch videos? No because there were none, we bashed our heads into a wall until we figured it out. When someone we knew did beat it: 'oh oh how you did it, give us advice etc...' and then we would take that and beat it with the advice.

Honestly to me sometimes it just feels like a 'do as we say, not as we do' hypocrisy. They are simply doing what we did, figuring it out buy doing, like we did when they game started, and how we do it every time new content comes out. Because to them, even if it's been out for 5 months, it's new content.

The standards change. When hull breaker came out, I ran it with three other FC mates so we could figure out the entire dungeon together. That's exactly what I suggested above, new players should find like minded people to explore dungeons with.

[KaiKatzchen]

Not wanting to explain something does not make a veteran player lazy. The player already did the leg work to learn the fights one way or another. A new player's unwillingness to watch a fight is lazy. A vet player not wanting to explain fights every time they use the DF is understandable.

By your logic of the double edge sword:

Player A put in x effort to learn a fight.
Player B put in 0 effort to learn the fight.

Now player A has to put in more effort to teach player B. Player A already put in the time to learn the fight. Player A is not being lazy be refusing to explain stuff.


The standards change. When hull breaker came out, I ran it with three other FC mates so we could figure out the entire dungeon together. That's exactly what I suggested above, new players should find like minded people to explore dungeons with.

Not necessarily. Player A (older) and B (newer) might both be putting in the same amount of effort to learn the fight, just at different times. If B is running, let's say Satasha at this time and player A comes in telling them how bad they are and how they should just quit etc, but does not give any helpful advice or explain what they are doing wrong, that could just leave the new player even more confused. How does that help anyone? No one was perfect at a dungeon the first, second or third time they did it, but they learned either though practice or running with friends and working together.

Not everyone, especially new players, has the grand luck of having friends automatically when they start. That is something a player gains as they progress. Maybe they don;t have someone to ask advice from, maybe they have no one to run with because they are alone? We don't think of asking such things, or getting to know one another in this game, it's 'go in - wam bam thank you ma'am - and be done. If you don't know what you're doing, stop slowing me down and get out of my way'.

As I said, above, Party Finder is for like minded people to get together and party together, which is why it has the restrictions added to it, as follows:

When recruiting members to join your party, you will have the option of setting various recruitment criteria. Fields include duty type, average item level, roles, play style, and language.

Duty Finder has no such restrictions upon it, you simply queue and go in and get who you get. As I said, youtube, strat guides, all good things... but should not be a requirement or held over someones head like they do that or they are worthless. I tell my student's to do their reading assignments, they have it every week, but every week I get a few who just don't get it and need to be shown what is being said. Does that make them a bad student? No, they learn differently, they learn though doing.


MMO's are about working together, helping one another and making one another the best that we can be. Someone did that for us at one point, be it a stranger in a DF or a friend in a LS or FC. As I have said before, 'treat others the way you would wish to be treated'. That is how I live my life, so I try to help and treat others with respect, until they disrespect me.

The standards of this game have not changed, the attitudes of players have changed, unfortunately.

[Teirshin]

Now player A has to put in more effort to teach player B. Player A already put in the time to learn the fight. Player A is not being lazy be refusing to explain stuff.

Player A is just being an anti-social tool for not wanting to help other people in a social game where the whole point is to interact with others.

Heaven forbid player A uses that almighty knowledge of what they've learned to help someone else and teach them.

Nope, cant do that, too concerned with their own gains to care.

WoW had a better community at pretty much all stages compared to what I see around FFXIV most nights.

In the end, I blame a lot of parents for raising spoiled rotten kids who have no concept of respect and acceptable social behavior and that think the world revolves only around them, both in and out of game.

Pssst.... here's a secret... it doesnt!

[Amberion]

Player A is just being an anti-social tool for not wanting to help other people in a social game where the whole point is to interact with others.

That would be like calling a retired teacher who doesn't teach children anymore anti-social tool.

It's not their job.

In the end, I blame a lot of parents for raising spoiled rotten kids who have no concept of respect and acceptable social behavior and that think the world revolves only around them, both in and out of game.

So when you want to learn something new, you expect random person B to help you out? Now who was raised to be a spoiled brat and thinks the world revolves around them?

When I want to learn something, I look up the information myself. Or maybe ask a friend or family member. I don't expect a person I don't know to do it for me. And if some random person decides to help me, I'm grateful since I know he has no obligation to help me.

[Moqi]

That would be like calling a retired teacher who doesn't teach children anymore anti-social tool.

It's not their job.

It takes 30 seconds at most to explain most strats... why are people acting like it's a big deal. You know what takes more time than that though? Coming to the forum to whine about players asking for advice.

[Teirshin]

That would be like calling a retired teacher who doesn't teach children anymore anti-social tool.

It's not their job.



So when you want to learn something new, you expect random person B to help you out? Now who was raised to be a spoiled brat and thinks the world revolves around them?

When I want to learn something, I look up the information myself. Or maybe ask a friend or family member. I don't expect a person I don't know to do it for me. And if some random person decides to help me, I'm grateful since I know he has no obligation to help me.

I never said it was their "job", they should WANT TO help others. If you dont, then yes, you're an anti-social tool.

Why play a social game with others if you're only going to care about yourself? Ah yes, that "special snowflake" attitude that parents teach nowadays..... that would explain a lot.

A retired teacher isnt anti-social, they worked all their life teaching. Player A didnt, and is thus an anti-social tool. The two arent even close to being simliar, so you get an F for your example.

Oh, and going by your example of a retired teacher.... to be equivalent, someone would have to be done playing the game, just like the teacher is done teaching, which they arent, they're actively playing, so... if they dont want to be labeled an anti-social tool, then start helping, or stop playing the game and be "retired".

The average teacher in this world sacrifices a lot more time, money and dignity than you do by making it their goal to teach kids. So to think that you're "sacrificing" in game by having to teach someone, is pathetic.

[Dejectedbunny]

That would be like calling a retired teacher who doesn't teach children anymore anti-social tool.

It's not their job.



So when you want to learn something new, you expect random person B to help you out? Now who was raised to be a spoiled brat and thinks the world revolves around them?

When I want to learn something, I look up the information myself. Or maybe ask a friend or family member. I don't expect a person I don't know to do it for me. And if some random person decides to help me, I'm grateful since I know he has no obligation to help me.

Except that all of the people in the dungeon, event, etc. are there to achieve the same goal. They're working cooperatively, not competitively. Only a fool would knowingly withhold information from their team when attempting to reach a common end.

[Amberion]

Except that all of the people in the dungeon, event, etc. are there to achieve the same goal. They're working cooperatively, not competitively. Only a fool would knowingly withhold information from their team when attempting to reach a common end.

Why should that 1 person expect them to help him though? He is expecting them to do the job he/she couldn't be bothered with doing himself. That is the very definition of selfish.

Why play a social game with others if you're only going to care about yourself? Ah yes, that "special snowflake" attitude that parents teach nowadays..... that would explain a lot.

Socialize, does not mean teach others. No one I have met started playing this game for that reason.

And Teirshin, I think you need to pick up a dictionary to learn what words mean before you spout them.

Let's see if you get this.

Example 1.

1 person asks the other 3-7-23 whatever number of people to do something for him, because he could not be bothered with it.

Example 2.

3 people expecting the last to have done something they themselves did.

Now, can you say which example has the special snowflake?

And I don't really mind helping, it's just that I mind people thinking it's some obligation of the older players to teach others.

A retired teacher isnt anti-social, they worked all their life teaching. Player A didnt, and is thus an anti-social tool. The two arent even close to being simliar, so you get an F for your example.

Fine, we can say the person was a truck driver instead of a teacher. Does that make him antisocial? Or is it some rule that only applies to MMORPG?