[suggestions] About new MAPS in 3.0 and beyond

[Munba]

Was reading the last development message by Junichi Murata and i was inspired to make a suggestion thread to give ideas and stuff to improve maps in the 3.0.

What do you think is missing in the actual maps and what should be improved in the new ones?

My suggestion list:

- Areas should be a bit more wider, to improve the feeling of 'distance/far/solitude' from civilized centers and to alleviate (and make them a bit more challenging) contents like Hunts or new ones in 3.0 and beyond. And also to 'spread' more people around.

- Aetherythes should be much more sparse or in some areas totally absent.
You could add some areas without Aetherythes with a new system of exploration in which you have to procede with a party or in solo (maybe instanced to not create crowd?) to find paths, landmarks, secrets and stuff. While you procede you could use the famous Tent or Cabin to rest (there could be a 'fatigue' system) and regain 'good status' without being attacked by random mobs around. During night you could use torches and lanterns to see around and find stuff. And you could have the possibility to 'build' your own Aetherythe in specific places with gathering and crafting.

- There should be more dungerous places in the maps to explore, with very hi-lv mobs around that you can kill but they are very HARD in solo.

- Open dungeons (ala FF11) should be a must have during building new areas (caves, temples, ruins) and in which you can add also new 'soft' content like Collectibles stuff (ancient lore writings, artifacts, etc.) or random Treasure Chest appearing around. You could think about a sort of 'Archeology system' too *hint a new gathering class * (with unique rewards of course, mounts, minions, gil, 'vintage' housing stuff).

- Add much more 'life' around (jumping frogs, sneaky sneakes, more flying birdies around and in the trees -not only seagulls and eagles in the sky-, butterflies -that are disappeared from 1.0 - and so on) and maybe also random events like migration bird bevies in the skies, etc.

- Add more natural random events (there are only rainbows now) like falling stars, tornados, etc.

- Make sky colors with 2-3 different random gradient 'configurations' during sunsets and dawns. So not to have the same sunset/dawn colors everytime.

[TheUltimate3]

My unimportant thoughts in bold.

Was reading the last development message by Junichi Murata and i was inspired to make a suggestion thread to give ideas and stuff to improve maps in the 3.0.

What do you think is missing in the actual maps and what should be improved in the new ones?

My suggestion list:

- Areas should be a bit more wider, to improve the feeling of 'distance/far/solitude' from civilized centers and to alleviate (and make them a bit more challenging) contents like Hunts or new ones in 3.0 and beyond. And also to 'spread' more people around. Agreed. Just for the love of the Twelve don't make me have to run that distance multiple times for little reason, cause then wide open area can suck it.

- Aetherythes should be much more sparse or in some areas totally absent.
You could add some areas without Aetherythes with a new system of exploration in which you have to procede with a party or in solo (maybe instanced to not create crowd?) to find paths, landmarks, secrets and stuff. While you procede you could use the famous Tent or Cabin to rest (there could be a 'fatigue' system) and regain 'good status' without being attacked by random mobs around. During night you could use torches and lanterns to see around and find stuff. And you could have the possibility to 'build' your own Aetherythe in specific places with gathering and crafting. Less Aetheryte, yes. Everything else here...i don't see it actually working. If you could eventually just build your own Aetheryte, why not just have Aetherytes already there? for example.

- There should be more dungerous places in the maps to explore, with very hi-lv mobs around that you can kill but they are very HARD in solo.Agreed to a point. Twelve forbid they stick something like story quest deep in No Mans Land that it would be very very difficult to get to solo. And while I am aware this opens my comments up to "This is an MMO", once the initial rush passes, new or returning guy now has to get through No Mans Land solo and they will either be dying a lot of giving up.

- Open dungeons (ala FF11) should be a must have during building new areas (caves, temples, ruins) and in which you can add also new 'soft' content like Collectibles stuff (ancient lore writings, artifacts, etc.) or random Treasure Chest appearing around. You could think about a sort of 'Archeology system' too *hint a new gathering class * (with unique rewards of course, mounts, minions, gil, 'vintage' housing stuff). Agreed

- Add much more 'life' around (jumping frogs, sneaky sneakes, more flying birdies around and in the trees -not only seagulls and eagles in the sky-, butterflies -that are disappeared from 1.0 - and so on) and maybe also random events like migration bird bevies in the skies, etc. Works well in single player games, not sure how they work in MMOs where all that stuff has to be rendered. Appearing in 1.0, and then not appearing in 2.0 seems to support this.

- Add more natural random events (there are only rainbows now) like falling stars, tornados, etc.Agreed, this game could use more weather.

- Make sky colors with 2-3 different random gradient 'configurations' during sunsets and dawns. So not to have the same sunset/dawn colors everytime. Agreed

[Shioban]

What do you think is missing in the actual maps and what should be improved in the new ones?

My suggestion list:

- Areas should be a bit more wider, to improve the feeling of 'distance/far/solitude' from civilized centers and to alleviate (and make them a bit more challenging) contents like Hunts or new ones in 3.0 and beyond. And also to 'spread' more people around.

The biggest problem they face is the Playstation 3 (Which has approximatley 512MB of RAM to work with (256MB System / 256MB GPU), that's not a lot of texture/model data on top of everything else the game has to cope with.

This drastically reduces the amount the size that each area can be (without a little technical adjustment).

There are options such as more aggressive performance counter measures such as; shorter draw distance/procedural loading methods, but for their current setup a procedural area loading system would be VERY difficult with their limited memory real estate. (If you've used a PS3 you'd already know it's pushing the limit on performance saving methods to the point where the game is barely even there)


As a result of this hardware restriction, making wider areas would mean sparser design/detail to the world which is something the development team wanted to avoid. They wanted a balance between world composition/detail and map-size, so until support for the Playtstation 3 is dropped this map size restriction and design is likely to stay in it's current form.

- Aetherythes should be much more sparse or in some areas totally absent.
You could add some areas without Aetherythes with a new system of exploration in which you have to procede with a party or in solo (maybe instanced to not create crowd?) to find paths, landmarks, secrets and stuff. While you procede you could use the famous Tent or Cabin to rest (there could be a 'fatigue' system) and regain 'good status' without being attacked by random mobs around. During night you could use torches and lanterns to see around and find stuff. And you could have the possibility to 'build' your own Aetherythe in specific places with gathering and crafting.

I completley agree that Aethertyes are all too common in ARR, they've in-turn made the world feel even smaller, albeit convenient.

Fatigue systems have been known to cause a lot of problems in the past, they'll be avoiding this. As maps won't be getting any bigger than they are currently, things like this simply wouldn't be needed as complex, large and heavily detailed areas simply won't be possible (See above).

- Add more natural random events (there are only rainbows now) like falling stars, tornados, etc.

- Make sky colors with 2-3 different random gradient 'configurations' during sunsets and dawns. So not to have the same sunset/dawn colors everytime.

Tornados/Meteor Showers/Tsunami's would cause a huge world-impact and some massive changes to the world around you, it's unlikely we'll see this happening in general areas, as the development time to adjust assets to suit this would be insane.

HOWEVER! For new maps as you said, there may be specific weather they'll add in for certain places that could trigger weather events or dangerous conditions to make certain enemies/FATEs/nodes (whatever) appear, we'll just have to wait and see.

- Make sky colors with 2-3 different random gradient 'configurations' during sunsets and dawns. So not to have the same sunset/dawn colors everytime.

Again, the skyboxes take a lot of time to perfect, adding in more of these would be an un-nessecary time consumption but we might see new ones for the areas in the game (as you may have already noticed certain areas have different skyboxes to suit).


"What the hell is a skybox?"

Essentially it's the trick used to make the sky you see, where either a box or a dome/sphere is used to create the upper atmosphere and horizon you see using a neat low-performance impact trick;
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Sky_List

http://www.realityisagame.com/archiv...t-is-a-skybox/

[StrejdaTom]

The biggest problem they face is the Playstation 3 (Which has approximatley 512MB of RAM to work with (256MB System / 256MB GPU), that's not a lot of texture/model data on top of everything else the game has to cope with.

They gave PS4 upgrade from PS3 for free. I have also heard that they are planning to make better water effects and add new HQ textures. It kinda feels that one day they will stop caring about PS3 players and I hope for that.

[Millerna]

They gave PS4 upgrade from PS3 for free. I have also heard that they are planning to make better water effects and add new HQ textures. It kinda feels that one day they will stop caring about PS3 players and I hope for that.

If I remember right, they already announced that the expansion will support the PS3, so it'll be at least a few more years before they drop PS3 support. They are working on a DirectX11 client though, which may come with higher resolution textures, but they won't be adding features to 1 client that could give that client an advantage over another client that can't support that feature.

[StrejdaTom]

If I remember right, they already announced that the expansion will support the PS3, so it'll be at least a few more years before they drop PS3 support. They are working on a DirectX11 client though, which may come with higher resolution textures, but they won't be adding features to 1 client that could give that client an advantage over another client that can't support that feature.

But there still must be a way to do bigger locations. Maybe force lower details on PS3 in that loc, like no grass and clutters.

[Millerna]

But there still must be a way to do bigger locations. Maybe force lower details on PS3 in that loc, like no grass and clutters.

Technically the PS3 can handle large areas, but the engine for ARR might have been designed around small areas, which would make it a bit of a challenge to do large areas. Square is usually pretty good at pushing consoles to their limits though, so who know what we might see in the expansion.

[silentwindfr]

They gave PS4 upgrade from PS3 for free. I have also heard that they are planning to make better water effects and add new HQ textures. It kinda feels that one day they will stop caring about PS3 players and I hope for that.

it was said that they can't promise to support ps3 after the first expansion.

[Shioban]

They gave PS4 upgrade from PS3 for free. I have also heard that they are planning to make better water effects and add new HQ textures. It kinda feels that one day they will stop caring about PS3 players and I hope for that.

Well at the end of the day marketing rules supreme.


If there are....


1,000,000 subscriptions and;

500,000 are PC

300,000 are PS4

200,000 are PS3


You're not going to cut out that substantial number until it drops to the point where you'd feel it was justifiable as 'redundant hardware'.




Nothing would be worse than cutting it off too early with tens of thousands of players who enjoy the game on PS3 then suddenly loose access. It'll have to be planned WAY in advance.

So true... i hope with directx11 they'll have the possibility to add some 'physic' waves on the ocean and change the water surface in a 'dynamic' one.


- They should add more natural caves (also small) around as well.

A DirectX 11 client is already in the worlds along with a set of high-resolution and uncompressed texture options, there's a huge list (which I'm sick of posting at this point) of potential things they could add to the game (some of which were possible in DX9).

One of the things they're not likely to add just yet however is more complex physical simulations. Currently simple physics exist in the game for cloth/hair and accessories/enemy mobs.

It's not going to be an easy task to implement new physics to the game with the PS3 client still floating around, that would require a seperate check to be added to see "Are they on PS3, if so disable [x]".
So for now it's easier to just leave it out.

They discussed adding these sorts of details after the PS3 drops.

I'd like to add.. give the sea some damn effects! Seriously, no matter what weather is up, be it fair, windy, or a thunderstorm, the sea is always as flat as pool of olive oil. Even in cutscenes with ships, the sea is yet still and unmoving, with only a "rippling water" effect at the edges of the ship happening. I want to see big raging waves during storms, and maybe even some random animations like the whales and dolphins on the FFXI ferry/manaclipper rides!

Not sure why they didn't add this, there's some VERY low gemoetry solutions to make waves in the sea, it's really not that difficult at a minimal performance cost, but I'd wager yet again "If we can't implement it on the PS3, its best just to wait".

[Shougun]

Not sure why they didn't add this, there's some VERY low gemoetry solutions to make waves in the sea, it's really not that difficult at a minimal performance cost, but I'd wager yet again "If we can't implement it on the PS3, its best just to wait".

It has to be on the to do list lol. Personally hoping that when Yoshida was talking about how Water was one of the bigger differences to notice (in the DX11 update) that they were talking about some sort of tessellation/displacement (I know those are not exclusive to DX11, just helped a little).

I noticed you visited the aesthetican.. :P