Paladin lacking the use of utility in Coil 2?

[YuriRamona]

Are people really looking at mechanics that required a Paladin's Shield Bash and Spirits Within and thinking,

"We need more of that"?

Interrupt mechanics are the laziest MMO mechanics. It's horrendous because only three to four jobs have access to Silence. It's even worse because every job has a different means of using Stun.

We don't need any more duties that require PLD to go stunbot (Dreadnoughts, Leviathan adds).

Let's get some real mechanics and real utility through new abilities. We don't have to be satisfied with the current paltry list of abilities and think about how to adapt new mechanics to work with those. It will always be annoying because they will rely on Stun or Silence. Please, no more interrupt/locking mechanics.

We need more interesting abilities such as Tempered Will. Maybe give PLDs Full Swing. Make Cover more interesting with a side effect. Anything. Please. Anything but stun or silence mechanics.

[Reynhart]

Are people really looking at mechanics that required a Paladin's Shield Bash and Spirits Within

Required, no. Useful, why not. And since we only have two tanks, almost every party already has a PLD, so it's not like "PLD only" is a big deal.

Let's get some real mechanics and real utility through new abilities.

OP is talking about current jobs. We'll have new abilities with the level cap increase.

[Mister-Wonderful]

Warrior does not out dps paladin in non tanking stance, and if anything paladin often does more than an equally geared warrior if the warrior is doing slashing resist down. In tanking stance, warrior will push ahead in burst because of unchained, but once again are near equal dps overall. Does anyone blindly saying warrior has more dps do any testing at all?

[SirTaint]

Warrior does not out dps paladin in non tanking stance, and if anything paladin often does more than an equally geared warrior if the warrior is doing slashing resist down. In tanking stance, warrior will push ahead in burst because of unchained, but once again are near equal dps overall. Does anyone blindly saying warrior has more dps do any testing at all?

The only time PLD and WAR DPS is equal is when WAR in MTing and keeping storms path up.

WAR MT >>> PLD MT

WARx2 >>>>> PLDx2

WAR MT PLD OT = WAR MT WAR OT

WAR MT PLD OT > PLD MT WAR OT

The only way for PLD to hang is to bring a WAR and then the WAR has to MT. The DPS is not equal at all.

[Gildarts]

Warrior does not out dps paladin in non tanking stance, and if anything paladin often does more than an equally geared warrior if the warrior is doing slashing resist down. In tanking stance, warrior will push ahead in burst because of unchained, but once again are near equal dps overall. Does anyone blindly saying warrior has more dps do any testing at all?

the only testing or good DPS for PLD we saw were t8 and done by JPs other than that i dont see any other good numbers in 6 7 9, and iirc some dude from DNT here parsed war vs pld on dummy and war was 30 DPS more.

[Sandamar]

The only time PLD and WAR DPS is equal is when WAR in MTing and keeping storms path up.

WAR MT >>> PLD MT

WARx2 >>>>> PLDx2

WAR MT PLD OT = WAR MT WAR OT

WAR MT PLD OT > PLD MT WAR OT

The only way for PLD to hang is to bring a WAR and then the WAR has to MT. The DPS is not equal at all.

?? Lol?

Totally disagree on this. There is no reason to have the War MT unless you want to stress the healer. Have fun in T9 with war MT.
The only place where you want warrior as MT and have the paladin OT is phase 3 in T6. Cuz yeah have fun holding the slug for burn strategy on T6 with a warrior

Paladin tanking is much more safer in T8 when you double tank Avatar+DN. And my assessment are based on raiding experience because the other day in my static we decided to swap the MT position (so i was OT and the war was MT) and trust me in T8 and T9 the healer were like WTF switch back. Same goes for T7 if your MT happens to double tank Melusine and 1 add.
The only place where war mitigation was enough was for Sentence in T5 with Inner Beast.

[YuriRamona]

OP is talking about current jobs. We'll have new abilities with the level cap increase.

Abilities with reworked functions are essentially new abilities, in my mind. Sorry for the confusion.

[SirTaint]

?? Lol?

Totally disagree on this.

First of all read before responding, I was referring to DPS.

As for your raid experience:
Get better tanks or healers? I can solo tank every turn on either job NP. I do prefer PLD for solo tanking T9 since I'm responsible for tanking and placing DB markers and PLD is a much simpler job.

T6: Kill the slugs before Acid rain.....
T7: IB for tail swipe, save CDs for adds. The only trying part is the first 3 adds and you have 3 CDs plus IB.
T8: Save CDs for adds, you should only have to tank 2 dreads. WAR is very much the ideal tank here.
T9: P1: IB for Beaks, CDs for 2nd and 3rd Blights. P3: IBx2+Conva for Nael+Dragon. P4: IB+CD for claws, save HG for the 3rd Claw.

[Alphras]

Sorry, but WAR is the ideal MT for at least T6 and T8(if he is able to play his class at least). First time I am hearing that PLD is better in T8 as solo tank than WAR o.O

[Mister-Wonderful]

The only time PLD and WAR DPS is equal is when WAR in MTing and keeping storms path up.

WAR MT >>> PLD MT

WARx2 >>>>> PLDx2

WAR MT PLD OT = WAR MT WAR OT

WAR MT PLD OT > PLD MT WAR OT

The only way for PLD to hang is to bring a WAR and then the WAR has to MT. The DPS is not equal at all.

Well, as I assume you don't test anything, figured I'd just do it again myself with equal gear on both. I haven't tanked hardly since 2.2 (Besides lol hunts), but it's still gotten some freelot gear and I used a couple sands on it since my dd's are i108-110 now. If you don't believe me, then go test yourself, I'm including a video, but I won't go too detailed on parse info. (I guess I could PM you, but meh)

3 minutes on each job, all in 1 video. Forgot to split it the video. Rounding a few numbers because lazyness. Just went all out dps until 3 minute mark, Skipped fracture on Pld as TP is dumb. Also this is just for DPS as said before, not in any way optimal tanking strategy. I know someone will say it.

Pretty basic combos, I only put this here if you wanted to see the rotation and gear I used to get this. Swapped to paladin at 3:29.

Warrior overall damage 50,000 at 3 minute mark, with 10% slashing resistance down from self (of course, needs dat maim anyway)

Paladin overall damage 46,000 at 3 minute mark, without 10% slashing resistance down.

Pretty expected, but if we add the damage bonus from assuming a warrior was MT, and as I'm not going to make some poor sap apply debuff for me, I just did math instead. We have to assume that the warrior needs time to build hate, about 30 seconds is usually enough, after all buffs are worn, and then can start applying Storms Eye) (lol storm's path)

46,000 / 10 = 4600
4600 / 6 = 767 (close enough)(30 seconds for Hate)

4600 - 767 = 3833

Adding it all together: 46,000 + 3833 = 49,833 Obviously this will vary greatly due to crits, timing, and many other variables, that I just don't care and did very basic math, but those numbers end up very close, even to begin with. Even if the MT couldn't keep full uptime on Storm's Eye, DPS is hardly effected. If you were to assume that there were 2 WAR tanks, Both warriors still need maim, and will have different methods of not overlapping and wasting debuffs, but there isn't a whole lot of damage gained from having 2 warriors tanking, and you also lose the strength debuff that Rage of Halone brings, so I don't know many that do this anyway, unless the players prefer WAR, or Nael keeps dropping HA axes.

I didn't bother to do Main tank, because Warrior does have an edge on damage and TP cost. The DPS difference isn't immense though really at all. While Warrior will often lead depending on role, I don't think most realize how close the DPS really is.