Watching cutscenes = AFK?

[Kaethra]

As far as I know, speedrun is a players-created concept, it's not the intended way to play through - any dungeon. But especially in Main Scenario ones, I do believe "normal" is going through it all, together with the cutscenes. Not skipping mobs and intermissions. So yeah, when it comes to those, having patience should be the norm; or in any case, a level of consideration towards the new players who are more likely to play them, especially where the game is by now. (Take Expert Roulette on the other hand - there I can understand everyone wanting to rush through it; it is called "expert" too and face it, not because of any particular difficulty or mob mechanics.) Not to even mention the facts that for a new player, Castrum Meridianum is a maze and takes quite a few runs to know and feel it; in Praetorium it's very easy to miss where you have to teleport and where you have to fight and interact with something (unable to jump in the Magitek Reaper anyone?). It's not "only trash mobs" they miss while watching the cutscenes.

If that were true, then they wouldn't be duoable by a single Tank and a single Healer. Even when we were running around in iLvl 50 relic gear it was one groupable. You wouldn't see tanks rushing through with a single healer on autofollow if the content was truly Full Group content. But then you'd see the roadblock right there instead of at Titan HM. They intended for mostly everyone who can use a mouse and keyboard at the same time and both sides of their controller to complete the content.

That means it can be sped ran by those players who are a little better. Also I don't skip cutscenes. FFXIV does that for me when I've already seen them. Its an option. Not a glitch, not a hack, not a bug, and not an exploit. So sorry they were meant to be skipped if you've seen them. And sorry to say, but everything up to Ultima Weapon is trash. That includes Nero, Gaius, and the Colossus. Its not very often I do much more than Cleric Stance, Holy, and Stone 2 in those fights.

And since we're able to run these things for Mythology, they are meant for running again and again.

Now.. it is a bit of a double edged sword. I don't tell anyone to skip the scenes. I never do that. I even tell people who get upset to shut up and leave the newbies alone or leave. As long as we have one tank and one healer (usually me) that isn't skipping. We can just continue on and let them watch the cutscenes. I have no problem with that. I can solo heal those dungeons easily and usually in Cleric Stance the whole time even then. They'll be ported to us at the important parts (right before Gaius and Ultima Weapon).

So yeah, players caused the issue. Players can fix the issue by just being nice to each other. We're not in elementary school anymore where we run from the playground to get the teacher to intervene (course I grew up in the early 80s, they didn't intervene much since they were on their smoke break ). We gotta step it up ourselves. And that's exactly what I do. Typically the tanks don't want to tick me off, and the DPS are expendable. So usually groups do what I tell them. Just got to get more SCH and WHM to get on board and a few good natured Tanks. Well the Good tanks already are. The mean ones are peeps that want fast queues and suck anyway (aka cure 1 pulls agro).

[Aegis]

As far as I know, speedrun is a players-created concept

Actually, it's something SE created back in version 1. You could only get Darklight gear (the best non-crafted+melded gear at the time) by clearing Aurum Vale or Cutter's Cry in under 16 minutes (I think it was 16, though I'm open to being corrected).

You also got seperate lodestone achievements for killing Ifrit, Moogle or Garuda in certain time frames.

[KaiKatzchen]

I am so glad this was brought up, I was about to make a thread about treatment of new players due to something that had happened to a friend of mine who just started.

Some older players are just rude and have little patience for new people in this game, which honestly is sad. I've actually gone into dungeons with new people and they say: "Oh I'll just skip the SC's cuz the last group got mad at me for not skipping". Why are people making others feel guilty and as if they are doing wrong for wanting to play a game?!

But it goes beyond this, some players are not only rude to new players other vet players as well. There is a huge entitlement issue in this game. Some feel they should get what they want when they want and how they want, if people go against that (not wanting to skip CS's not, wanting to do speed runs etc) they they are the one in the wrong and the bad person automatically. A mmo is about working together for a common goal and helping one another. Not treating people like crap to get what one person wants and be treated badly, cussed at, kicked from.

As I said at first, while it doesn't directly meet the watching cutscene/afk... it does hit on some older players treatment of new players:

I had a friend start a few days ago, she had seen me playing in my streams so went and got the game as well. She's only been playing maybe 4 days, just hit her early 20's and is very dependent and wants to learn the game, not coddled thought it and hand held. Makes me proud of her!

But she told me a story that she went into a low level dungeon to practice on her gladiator more, got a high level person in her party. And went on to tell me that this other player seemed really frustrated with them because 'they sucked' and he kept getting mad at them due to it. Now she did say he was trying to help some, and gave some advice (which was nice to at least do that), but then went on to tell her flat out that that she shouldn't be a gladiator and should have chosen a different job to play.

While I am glad that the person did try to give advice... what upsets me about this is the fact a vet player is going into a low level dungeon and telling people they are bad at what they do. If you go into a low level dungeon then people should expect to get paired up with new players. No they won't be perfect, no they might not know what they are doing; that is because they are learning!

But to get mad at new players, tell them they suck and that they should play a different job is rude in my opinion. I told her to keep on playing gladiator for now, practice makes perfect and not let someone tell her shes bad at it, especially this early on. I ran with her, no she not level 50 elite tanker, but she wasn't bad! She takes advice and she learns, which is the point of low level!

If players don't want to deal with low level players, give them a chance and be polite, not frustrate them into thinking they made a wrong choice and are bad at what they do, then don't do low level roulette/Dungeons.

If players want to do speed runs, or not watch cut scenes, then don't use duty finder, make a party or use party finder to set up a party with your own rules.

But going into duty finder and put people down and kick people for stupid reason, like watching a cutscene or expecting everyone to play the exact way they want and being rude if they don't is wrong.

[Nialle]

The only solution for this that I see is if SE learns their lesson and makes the last couple 'storyline dungeons' in the next expansion either Solo or Light Party. Right now, with so many strangers being tossed into them via DF, there is almost no way to peer pressure groups on the behalf of the new people who (imo) have a right to see the storyline play out in the order it was designed to be seen, in between the boss fights.

It's a failure of SE's design of these dungeons, unfortunately, that allows and rewards people for being impatient and selfish. In some ways adding them to Roulette made it worse, and there are profit-motivated people queueing for them who want to get them over with for the tomes and bonus and could care less about new people.

So in that way, I agree that setting up a PF for them is overall the best solution as it stands right now, though it may take longer to get a group that way for some people.

[Ilitsa]

While I can't help everyone, I do my best to let any new players I happen to meet to know that they can add me and my FC will help them through Castrum and Praetorium so that they can watch the scenes. I can't fathom the mentality of belittling and berating a new player for being new and wanting to experience the story as it was -meant- to be seen, yes they CAN watch the scenes in the inn, but they shouldn't be FORCED into that being the only option. me and my fiance usually go in as both tanks (unless the person we're helping is a tank, then one of us goes healer instead) and we'll stand there until the new person is through, if someone doesn't like it, be it a healer, or a DD, they can leave is our philosophy.

So if you're a new player tired of these attitudes, there are people out there willing to help you properly. You just have to find us.

[ariaandkia]

Never speed run the water sprite stuff in Hullbreaker without a WHM. It doesn't work. Especially not with a WAR. (Unless you get lucky and have two BLMs who know quickflare and quelling strikes.) I died too many times even with a WHM as an i94 Tank (Both PLD and WAR) On those bits. I made a macro as such for my tank:

/p I will not be speed running this dungeon. If you are here to speed run, please leave now, or deal with it.

Even if a magic tank comes, I will still use this macro, and I will never speed run ever.

Eh? It works fine as a SCH as long as people call out that they are doing it beforehand instead of just rushing it with no warning or readycheck

===

I actually skip CS now because people got mad at me for not skipping. Luckily, they never kicked me for watching CS, just got really pissed off. (I was a healer and most of the time they needed me cus waiting for a healer or a tank would take a long time).

Though I did get locked out of some boss fights, they generally weren't bad since there was multiple healers in those cases.

Personally speaking, if someone wants to watch a CS, I'm more than happy to wait.

===

I think they need to add a Vote "Keep" in the list of options for vote Kicks.

Here is my thought:

Three Options: Keep, Kick, Abstain

Players in the same FC, in their friends list, or in the same premade party as the person being kicked, they cannot select Keep.

If Kick is lower or equal to Keep, nothing happens.

If Kick is higher than Keep+1, the player is kicked

If Kicks is equal to Keep+1, then a check is made.

If most of the kick players are in the same party/friendslist/fc, then nothing happens.
Otherwise, the player is kicked.

As an example, if 4 Kicks vs 3 Keeps, but most of the 4 are in the same group while the 3 are not, then don't kick. If everyone is random, then it would kick.

As an addition to this, when the 10 minute timer goes up, have it so that a vote pops up. The vote would not be in the middle of the screen but to the side. The vote could pop at 9 minutes and all players that aren't afk would have the option to vote for Kick, Keep, Abstain.

With the vote, assuming there is more than 1 person voting, the system would have a vote as well with 2 votes in kick. So in order to keep the player, at least 2 people would need to vote to keep. If exactly one person votes (everyone else abstains or is afk), then their vote counts as 3 votes.

[Mahri]

Speed running, despite being totally contrary to design (albeit not exploitatively so), certainly has its place, and can actually be really fun. However, those looking for speed runs via the random DF probably ought to fire up the party finder instead.

I like to tank, and smashing through a dungeon is typically my default mode, but I make a habit of asking first if anyone looks like they may be new. If they want to watch cutscenes or do a full clear for XP or loot, then that's what we're doing.

For tanks and healers: This is pretty much your tradeoff for those insta-queues.

[WinterSolstice]

I feel like those who just say "watch it in the inn" are the same people who play the game nonestop, skip cutscenes, skip text, and just try their hardest to get through every bit of required content in the fastest way without appreciating any of it.

People need to understand that, while you can watch most cutscenes in the inn, it feel dramatically different. The cutscene where Lahabrea unleashes Ultima is easily one of the best cutscenes in the game. It doesn't feel nearly as good to watch it after you already finished that bit of story.

Please let people enjoy the game. If you are the kind of person who skips every bit of text and cutscene just to get things done quicker, you are generally not the kind of person who will stick around and support the game down the road. You will move on to other games because you feel bored with the "lack of content" in this one. Anyone who is like this has no right thinking that their time in the game is more important than those who wish to go slower and enjoy it in their own way. They might play this game much, much longer than you.

[Khemorex]

hmm i have only one thing to add to this discussion :

[Amused]

I agree with you OP, this sort of behavior is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. How are we going to grow a community if we treat our new players like garbage?