Watching cutscenes = AFK?

[KaiKatzchen]

I am so glad this was brought up, I was about to make a thread about treatment of new players due to something that had happened to a friend of mine who just started.

Some older players are just rude and have little patience for new people in this game, which honestly is sad. I've actually gone into dungeons with new people and they say: "Oh I'll just skip the SC's cuz the last group got mad at me for not skipping". Why are people making others feel guilty and as if they are doing wrong for wanting to play a game?!

But it goes beyond this, some players are not only rude to new players other vet players as well. There is a huge entitlement issue in this game. Some feel they should get what they want when they want and how they want, if people go against that (not wanting to skip CS's not, wanting to do speed runs etc) they they are the one in the wrong and the bad person automatically. A mmo is about working together for a common goal and helping one another. Not treating people like crap to get what one person wants and be treated badly, cussed at, kicked from.

As I said at first, while it doesn't directly meet the watching cutscene/afk... it does hit on some older players treatment of new players:

I had a friend start a few days ago, she had seen me playing in my streams so went and got the game as well. She's only been playing maybe 4 days, just hit her early 20's and is very dependent and wants to learn the game, not coddled thought it and hand held. Makes me proud of her!

But she told me a story that she went into a low level dungeon to practice on her gladiator more, got a high level person in her party. And went on to tell me that this other player seemed really frustrated with them because 'they sucked' and he kept getting mad at them due to it. Now she did say he was trying to help some, and gave some advice (which was nice to at least do that), but then went on to tell her flat out that that she shouldn't be a gladiator and should have chosen a different job to play.

While I am glad that the person did try to give advice... what upsets me about this is the fact a vet player is going into a low level dungeon and telling people they are bad at what they do. If you go into a low level dungeon then people should expect to get paired up with new players. No they won't be perfect, no they might not know what they are doing; that is because they are learning!

But to get mad at new players, tell them they suck and that they should play a different job is rude in my opinion. I told her to keep on playing gladiator for now, practice makes perfect and not let someone tell her shes bad at it, especially this early on. I ran with her, no she not level 50 elite tanker, but she wasn't bad! She takes advice and she learns, which is the point of low level!

If players don't want to deal with low level players, give them a chance and be polite, not frustrate them into thinking they made a wrong choice and are bad at what they do, then don't do low level roulette/Dungeons.

If players want to do speed runs, or not watch cut scenes, then don't use duty finder, make a party or use party finder to set up a party with your own rules.

But going into duty finder and put people down and kick people for stupid reason, like watching a cutscene or expecting everyone to play the exact way they want and being rude if they don't is wrong.

[coldreactive]

So what you are saying is you expect a tank class where you can hold hate with magic attacks thus tanking it from afar expecting the mob not to run up to you cause you have top hate (since you hate "close up" tank). That logic.
As for the whole DF kicking, they really should just make it so that you can't initiate a kick when someone is in CS. They've done it for in combat, when loots are available, I don't see why they can't do it for CS as well.

There's already a semi-tank like it in Perfect World International. I also made such a tank in my class/job suggestion thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...gestion-Thread

I mean, I don't like to use shield lob / tomahawk / flash / overpower to grab aggro off of BLMs/etc. I'd prefer to be a magic tank to do that.

[KyrsIsley]

There's already a semi-tank like it in Perfect World International. I also made such a tank in my class/job suggestion thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...gestion-Thread

I mean, I don't like to use shield lob / tomahawk / flash / overpower to grab aggro off of BLMs/etc. I'd prefer to be a magic tank to do that.

Regardless of what style of tanking you do, you are going to be close up because you have hate, unless the mob is designed to attack only from a range. So if you are not a fan of close up tank, you probably just shouldn't tank.

[Sove92]

I was surprised Square added the vote-kick feature to begin with; the abuse new players had to suffer through beforehand has only been increased with this feature.

The alternative of not having the vote kick function was insufferable. Leeching and trolling was a huge problem and you could only report them, the run was ruined either way.

[BreathlessTao]

If you use Duty Finder. Don't expect everyone to wait for you to watch cutscenes.
If you use Duty Finder. Don't expect for everyone to engage in a speedy run.

Its a double edged sword. To put it simply, use Party Finder to make a group for the type of run you wish to do.

For the Main Scenario Duties, this is how I see it. As long as one healer and one tank aren't watching the cutscenes.. just roll with it. Complete the instance as normal. You only need ONE tank, and ONE healer and any amount of DPS or No DPS to complete it. Let the people who want to watch, sit and watch. They're just missing trash mobs anyway.

As far as I know, speedrun is a players-created concept, it's not the intended way to play through - any dungeon. But especially in Main Scenario ones, I do believe "normal" is going through it all, together with the cutscenes. Not skipping mobs and intermissions. So yeah, when it comes to those, having patience should be the norm; or in any case, a level of consideration towards the new players who are more likely to play them, especially where the game is by now. (Take Expert Roulette on the other hand - there I can understand everyone wanting to rush through it; it is called "expert" too and face it, not because of any particular difficulty or mob mechanics.) Not to even mention the facts that for a new player, Castrum Meridianum is a maze and takes quite a few runs to know and feel it; in Praetorium it's very easy to miss where you have to teleport and where you have to fight and interact with something (unable to jump in the Magitek Reaper anyone?). It's not "only trash mobs" they miss while watching the cutscenes.

[Nialle]

The only solution for this that I see is if SE learns their lesson and makes the last couple 'storyline dungeons' in the next expansion either Solo or Light Party. Right now, with so many strangers being tossed into them via DF, there is almost no way to peer pressure groups on the behalf of the new people who (imo) have a right to see the storyline play out in the order it was designed to be seen, in between the boss fights.

It's a failure of SE's design of these dungeons, unfortunately, that allows and rewards people for being impatient and selfish. In some ways adding them to Roulette made it worse, and there are profit-motivated people queueing for them who want to get them over with for the tomes and bonus and could care less about new people.

So in that way, I agree that setting up a PF for them is overall the best solution as it stands right now, though it may take longer to get a group that way for some people.

[Obysuca]

People are impatient jackasses, and unfortunately, no number of forum posts is going to change it.

If only it did :/ Just the other day, I got 90k'd in hullbreaker (as whm, so the queue isn't too bad but still) and I'm back within 30 seconds....to standing back in mist because apparently they're too impatient to wait a few seconds so they kicked me lol

Semi-related, but if someone d/cs and I mean actually d/c, you shouldn't be able to kick them for ~2 minutes. Sometimes it does take a while to get back on (1-2 mins) or sometimes it can take a few seconds. Because it's not like a few extra seconds or 1-3 minutes more is really going to kill you >_>

[Amelia_Pond_Behemoth]

I don't even understand why impatient people would queue up for Story Roulette...

I don't know why anyone would queue up for story roulette unless they were desperate for myth. Same two dungeons get old fast.

[Marael]

I personally find it sad and find it a lousy excuse when people say "watch it in the inn"..hun, a little CS isn't going to hurt anyone. Don't complain about your "precious" time either, it's really not.

What's really bad about this one is that some people get glitched and are only able to watch the first CS of the bunch, or none at all, and there's nothing that can be done about it so they completely miss out, have to run the instance again and put up with people being jerks about it again, or youtube it.

[Kaethra]

As far as I know, speedrun is a players-created concept, it's not the intended way to play through - any dungeon. But especially in Main Scenario ones, I do believe "normal" is going through it all, together with the cutscenes. Not skipping mobs and intermissions. So yeah, when it comes to those, having patience should be the norm; or in any case, a level of consideration towards the new players who are more likely to play them, especially where the game is by now. (Take Expert Roulette on the other hand - there I can understand everyone wanting to rush through it; it is called "expert" too and face it, not because of any particular difficulty or mob mechanics.) Not to even mention the facts that for a new player, Castrum Meridianum is a maze and takes quite a few runs to know and feel it; in Praetorium it's very easy to miss where you have to teleport and where you have to fight and interact with something (unable to jump in the Magitek Reaper anyone?). It's not "only trash mobs" they miss while watching the cutscenes.

If that were true, then they wouldn't be duoable by a single Tank and a single Healer. Even when we were running around in iLvl 50 relic gear it was one groupable. You wouldn't see tanks rushing through with a single healer on autofollow if the content was truly Full Group content. But then you'd see the roadblock right there instead of at Titan HM. They intended for mostly everyone who can use a mouse and keyboard at the same time and both sides of their controller to complete the content.

That means it can be sped ran by those players who are a little better. Also I don't skip cutscenes. FFXIV does that for me when I've already seen them. Its an option. Not a glitch, not a hack, not a bug, and not an exploit. So sorry they were meant to be skipped if you've seen them. And sorry to say, but everything up to Ultima Weapon is trash. That includes Nero, Gaius, and the Colossus. Its not very often I do much more than Cleric Stance, Holy, and Stone 2 in those fights.

And since we're able to run these things for Mythology, they are meant for running again and again.

Now.. it is a bit of a double edged sword. I don't tell anyone to skip the scenes. I never do that. I even tell people who get upset to shut up and leave the newbies alone or leave. As long as we have one tank and one healer (usually me) that isn't skipping. We can just continue on and let them watch the cutscenes. I have no problem with that. I can solo heal those dungeons easily and usually in Cleric Stance the whole time even then. They'll be ported to us at the important parts (right before Gaius and Ultima Weapon).

So yeah, players caused the issue. Players can fix the issue by just being nice to each other. We're not in elementary school anymore where we run from the playground to get the teacher to intervene (course I grew up in the early 80s, they didn't intervene much since they were on their smoke break ). We gotta step it up ourselves. And that's exactly what I do. Typically the tanks don't want to tick me off, and the DPS are expendable. So usually groups do what I tell them. Just got to get more SCH and WHM to get on board and a few good natured Tanks. Well the Good tanks already are. The mean ones are peeps that want fast queues and suck anyway (aka cure 1 pulls agro).