Are you happy with the current raiding structure in this game?

[Colt47]

It's only a rat race if you want it to be. Players somehow think they need to get full bis or clear coil before the next patch comes in even though they can't/not willing to put in the time. That is why there are so many cases of people buying runs or begging to be carried. You don't see people complaining about heroic raids and their lockout in wow do you? The players there have somewhat of an unwritten understanding that the best gear in game is not for everyone, which yoshi has mentioned before.

The problem is not with the system, but with the mentality of some players.

That they are essentially paying for content that is not feasible for them to experience? And you think that this is their problem? I guess they can always choose to stop paying and play something else.

[GalkaBikini]

That they are essentially paying for content that is not feasible for them to experience?

See, I was having a conversation with my friend about this topic today, and he brought up a good point. MMORPGs aren't meant to be beaten. You are not supposed to be able to say "I've done everything in the game there is to do." The players that actually can (assuming they are telling the truth and not ignoring content they don't enjoy as much or don't care about), are an extremely tiny microscopic minority. At the moment, believe it or not, second coil is not meant for a majority of the playerbase. When 2.4 comes out I'm sure 2nd coil will be adjusted and receive echo buffs just like 1st coil did with patch 2.2. And this will allow a larger chunk of the population to experience content.

I keep having to repeat myself, but, this is how MMOs are, lol. New content comes out and only a tiny % of players get to experience it until the next big update or expansion in which it becomes more accessible to the average player (whether that is thru nerfs or simply new tools/abilities/equipment being added to the game). You aren't meant to be able to do everything in the game immediately, and pretty much every MMO has and always will have gated and locked content. Any MMO that doesn't is probably dead.

[Colt47]

snip for space

It's true that MMORPGs are not meant to be beaten. That would generate an exit condition where the idea is to retain players as long as possible. The part that is problematic is how they are deploying the challenge content. There is a difference between teaser bosses and building an entire section of lore around an area, thus making it feel integral to see all of the game world. The second a section is built like that, people start caring if they can experience it or not that are NOT challenge oriented players, and that is where this entire issue with coil begins.

[GalkaBikini]

thus making it feel integral to see all of the game world

And they will see it. Eventually. But not today. IDK why that is so hard to accept.

[Colt47]

And they will see it. Eventually. But not today. IDK why that is so hard to accept.

Well, the reason it is a bit of a problem is that they are making it a timed exclusive when they put the difficulty up so that only a small percentile can see it when it is current content. It's not quite as bad as seeing the next Tomb Raider being Xbox One exclusive when they did a rerelease of the last tomb raider game in HD on both consoles, but it starts getting there. That is why MMO designers started implementing multiple difficulties for the same content: it was a good idea in single player games since it let more people see content without alienating those interested in going for more of a challenge. That and truly hard content could always be added into the game in ways that wouldn't alienate most of the player base. Heck, teaser bosses and extreme modes abound in a ton of games and those tend to be the hardest content in those games, such as Bass in Rockman Network Transmission or No Light Yogg Saron from World of Warcraft.

What proof do you have of this, the only ones who could know this is SE. You are making this up.

Talk to people who are coming back to the game and those playing. That and pay attention to what Yoshida has been saying in live letters. It's not new information, Yoshi P. noted that a good number of players are just subbing for maybe a month at a time and then cutting their subscriptions, he simply views it as normal while I'm kind of questioning it.

This game doesn't really feel like it has a middle ground at the moment that gives suitable rewards. We're stuck with either hunts and ST or grinding Coil and Ramuh EX.

[LTEvil]

snip.

The man has a point, there are different types of MMOs. What you guys are playing is a themepark or for lack of a better comparsion a WoW type. Which means content comes out, it will be hard for casuals at first, patch comes and suddenly bam casuals stand a chance. Another patch comes and bam even the worse casuals clearing it np.

This is just how it is, eventually larger raids will come out might even get tweaks. Like trash mobs that actually have value or something. But meh if the games combat wasnt moving in slow motion i'd say you wont a much better game of its type. It's currently right behind rift and rift is behind WoW. As far as popularity.

Sidebar character limit = lolreally?

[Fendred]

The man has a point, there are different types of MMOs. What you guys are playing is a themepark or for lack of a better comparsion a WoW type. Which means content comes out, it will be hard for casuals at first, patch comes and suddenly bam casuals stand a chance. Another patch comes and bam even the worse casuals clearing it np.

Their raiding experience would hold a lot more people for a longer period of time if they actually took it upon themselves to create multiple levels of difficulty instead of waiting until content is old and giving it an echo buff. The raid philosophy at the moment is that main raids are hardcore only, which became outdated over six years ago. The game has more than enough content to keep everyone happy as long as they can give the player base access to what is current content.

Also, they're doing something they need to cut back on considerably, and that's boosting item level. The content will have to keep becoming easier and easier to keep people happy because they get used to doing things at an accelerated rate. I'm already seeing discontent at doing older dungeons due to item level sync. The pacing of old content is noticeably slower than new content, sometimes as much as a ten minute difference in run time. This extends to every aspect of the game outside of raids/dungeons as well. What once upon a time was an acceptable rate of killing things at one point becomes unacceptable by first expansion. It starts at ten monsters for a kill quest, then they have to make it fifteen, and then twenty.

[Colt47]

I'm starting to think the problem with the raiding is due to a demographic difference. We got people here who are in statics and are having trouble with the lockout system, and then there are people that are having trouble even starting up coil Turn 6-9 because of the fact they are joining in late or are having to deal with mercenary like behavior in the party finder. No matter what SE does, there's only so many people in the game interested in doing this content and without facilitating some way to get people at different points in the learning to work together this is going to just keep getting worse.

[Amberion]

That they are essentially paying for content that is not feasible for them to experience? And you think that this is their problem? I guess they can always choose to stop paying and play something else.

I might misinterpret you, if so , I'm sorry.

But if people don't want or can't put in the timer/effort needed for something, why should they be entitled to finishing it?

It's the same like a lot of single player RPGs or any genre really, chances are that you will not do everything if you don't put in the effort or are good enough.