RNG doesn't hate you

[Tsuwu]

I crave attention.

I'm sorry to hear that.

I'm about 3/4 done with my second set of Atma.
The first, about 22 hours of solid work. Over about 2 weeks.
The second, 7/12 in about 15 hours over a week.
The key is not forcing it. Go grind a few FATEs. No luck, go enjoy something else.
If you pass a FATE, grind it up, move along.
Easy.

Your...luck, let's call it...
Is superstition. This is pixels and math.
It doesn't care who you are or how many...incredible, let's say...stories you have.

Here's wishing you better "luck".

[zeopower6]

The way that the game handles random numbers tries to be 'truly random' and so.. things don't really work like that in game. It explains why people can get several failures in a row with 95-96% success rate.

And some atmas just don't want to drop... I've witnessed it myself and at times, a certain area's atma wouldn't drop until several days of farming hundreds of FATEs.

[reality_check]

The way that the game handles random numbers tries to be 'truly random' and so.. things don't really work like that in game.

Using truly random numbers just means they've programmed the game to have the most accurate RNG possible. It's not to give you a disadvantage. Of course people can fail several 95% success rate synths in a row, that doesn't mean that the RNG system in this game is broken.

[Tharian]

The way that the game handles random numbers tries to be 'truly random' and so.. things don't really work like that in game. It explains why people can get several failures in a row with 95-96% success rate.

Except that you are trying to compare two different elements of the game.

In the first case (Atma) there is a static figure that determines how frequently an Atma can drop in any given FATE. This figure at least for the purposes of this discussion has been defined in the form of there being a 2% chance of the Atma dropping from any given fate, but as far as the actual programming language is concerned it is probably more likely to be defined in a manner of if a given variable is true at the completion of the FATE, then the ATMA is able to drop, what this variable happens to be is something that I couldn't even begin to hazard a guess, in fact the variable is probably different for each and every FATE in the game so as to prevent people from taking advantage of figuring out the variable in one FATE and applying the same variable to all other FATE's.

Additionally compounding the Atma problem is that the chance to gain an Atma does not carry over from one FATE to the next. In otherwords you have exactly the same percentage of a chance to gain an Atma after completing 50 FATES as you did when you first started. Completing more FATE's does not increase your odds of getting an Atma in the least bit. Doesn't hurt those odds either though.

In the second case you are comparing the Atma grind to a High Quality Synthesis Attempt. Problem here is that they are nothing alike. And unless you get 100% on the High Quality Bar, you will ALWAYS, ALWAYS have a chance to fail getting a High Quality Item, no matter how close you are to that 100%. There is a reason 100% is known as the perfect percentile.

You are completely and utterly dead wrong. This weekend I made a thread when I was at 1140 fates, starting my atma quest at around 300. At the time that was 840, but I got up to 1200 fates by the end of today. I'm at 900 fates and only have two atma. Neither of those were received this month.

You actually counted how many FATE's you had participated in? And you counted them to that high of a number? Do you have a life?

That's great and all but how about we leave luck to the casinos of Las Vegas and focus on challenge and skill on our video games?

That statement proves that you have never been to a Casino. Gambling has absolutely nothing to do with luck (unless you are using a Slot Machine or other purely mechanical method of gambling) and has everything to do with skill in the modern day and age. Even games involving dice can be largely skill based depending on the individual practicing the game. There are several people out there who can actually control what number a die will land on to some extent. And let's not even get started on Professional Poker and the amount of that game that is skill as opposed to luck (and I am not even talking about card counting here).

[zeopower6]

snip

But wouldn't they use the same sort of algorithms to roll for the chance of a success/failure when the percentage is below 100%? I figure that each FATE/synth that is 99% and below/etc. is treated as an individual event and there's always a chance of 'failure' and that doing more synths or FATEs or whatever don't really make your chances any better.

I mentioned them because they are both in-game activities that usually have people cursing RNGesus.

You actually counted how many FATE's you had participated in? And you counted them to that high of a number? Do you have a life?

That was a bit uncalled for. There is an in-game counter since there is an achievement for 3000 FATEs. You just need to check that every so often to know where you are at FATE-wise and since most people usually don't get to that achievement, it's an easy way to figure out how many FATEs you have done.

[Tharian]

But wouldn't they use the same sort of algorithms to roll for the chance of a success/failure when the percentage is below 100%? I figure that each FATE/synth that is 99% and below/etc. is treated as an individual event and there's always a chance of 'failure' and that doing more synths or FATEs or whatever don't really make your chances any better.

No actually they wouldn't. Synthesis results need to take into account the different percentages involved. As such they algorithm will be modified depending on what the percentage for success actually is. FATE's involved in the search for Atma's on the other hand only have 2 relevant variables: 1.) Is a Zenith Weapon equipped? If yes, then proceed to variable 2, if no, then don't proceed. 2.) If yes, then is condition met that determines that Atma should be dropped? If yes, then drop Atma, if not, then don't. That is really all they needed to do in order to program the Atma hunt other than installing the conditions that would result in Atma's being dropped. And again, those conditions could be nearly anything.

That was a bit uncalled for. There is an in-game counter since there is an achievement for 3000 FATEs. You just need to check that every so often to know where you are at FATE-wise and since most people usually don't get to that achievement, it's an easy way to figure out how many FATEs you have done.

I honestly forgot about that counter. That said, I still think it rather odd for someone to purposely go out and perform 1000+ FATE's in a single weekend (or whatever that individuals time frame was) and not do anything else. So the question stands, though the reasoning behind it should probably changed to....

"You performed 1,000 FATE's in a 48 hour period? Do you have a life?"

[swordrain]

"You performed 1,000 FATE's in a 48 hour period? Do you have a life?"

No, I did them over several months. I don't even know how many. I just made it part of my daily routine. I just remember because I had been keeping track of how many fates until my 3000 fate achievement was done, and I just knew before I started. I looked back at it this weekend, and realized I had gone 840 fates through that period of time with only two drops. This weekend I only did about 60 fates since I was also running frontlines, and that brings the total to 900 fates with two atma.

...snip...

I'm getting over it, my boyfriend convinced me to give up, and that it was ruining our fun ingame once I realized how much time I had wasted a couple of days ago, we both got really frustrated and angry. We've settled on getting the other 110 weapons now. I'm just the kind of person that is obsessive about goals and my self esteem rides on completing those goals, whatever they are. I said months ago when I finally hit level 50 on all my classes except lancer that I'd do many things, getting a zodiac weapon was one of those things. It's impossible for some people to understand, but I feel like trash now because I failed miserably at what I set out to do. I don't care what obstacles are in the way of my goal. I failed. It's hard to look at myself until I feel I do something to redeem myself of my failure.

[swordrain]

You actually counted how many FATE's you had participated in? And you counted them to that high of a number? Do you have a life?

I just checked my achievement progress. I had just earned 300 fates when I started. Now I am at 1200 as of today, and only have two atmas. I've completely ignored almost every other facet of the game, except for dailies, and even those I had been forgetting most of the time for a very long while. All I do is login, dailies, fates. 4-8 hours of play almost every single day for months. I'm just a creature of habit, the same kind of habit I had before where I ran dungeons over and over and over to get so many classes to level 50. It's just how I function.

Swordrain. Eek. Harassment is a bannable offense, even on these forums.

If this quest is causing you that much turmoil in your personal life that it's effecting your attitude and causing you to snap at people, you need to prioritize your time in this game. The glow is not worth it.

He called me a liar, sorry its hard to not get very angry after everything I've been through on this, only to be called a liar about it.

[swordrain]

You are completely and utterly dead wrong. This weekend I made a thread when I was at 1140 fates, starting my atma quest at around 300. At the time that was 840, but I got up to 1200 fates by the end of today. I'm at 900 fates and only have two atma. Neither of those were received this month.

Its easy to sit there and yadda yadda yadda about how you know so much about being in a situation, but you aren't there, so you can't possibly know how terrible it feels t be in this situation. This system is BROKEN and needs to be completely redone. I made an entire thread where I went through the five stages of grief over my weekend, said some really mean things, cried, was really mean to my boyfriend for no reason, and then finally he convinced me to surrender utterly after all the work I put into it.

So you can shove your math. You can't possibly know how it really is for some of us.

[Garlyle]

Its easy to sit there and yadda yadda yadda about how you know so much about being in a situation, but you aren't there, so you can't possibly know how terrible it feels t be in this situation. This system is BROKEN and needs to be completely redone. So you can shove your math. You can't possibly know how it really is for some of us.

See here's the thing about the RNG: It's random. It doesn't love you or hate you or love some people or hate some people. It literally doesn't care. It doesn't discriminate. It just rolls, again and again. The math's not wrong, and the system isn't 'fundamentally broken'.

I get that it sucks. But the RNG isn't actually to be held responsible - it does its job. If you want to argue for a variable drop rate for atmas however that steadily increases the drop chance after repeated failures, however, sure. That would help reduce - not eliminate, but reduce - outlier case frequencies that negatively impact players. Hell, I'll likely back you on that request.

It isn't random, it is based on an algorithm which means... If you try it under a specific situation, you will always get the same result. And since you can't choose your seed (unlike with things like dice), you have little control over your results aside from brute forcing.

I think one thing that's important to note is functionally, it might as well be random. I highly, highly doubt that PRNG is seeded separately for each individual player - instead, the same 'queue' of PRNG-developped numbers is likely used all across the server, pulling every single time it's needed. The only way you'd ever be able to manipulate such a thing even slightly would be to be the only person online... which isn't going to happen, let's be realistic. It being a PRNG is merely an academic distinction, not a functional one.