Why don't they change the way we earn Atma? (An honest question, not a rant.)

[ruskie]

Naw, that's not mundane enough, it'll probably be like running story roulette seven thousand times or something.

Except it would go in line with the whole reviving old content BUT at the same time they can make it mundane enough by basically having a 0.01% drop rate of some mats you need 10 from each and from that you upgrade novus to a pre next step relic that then you need to run through all the dungeons each 10 times(so that rouge/nins won't have to long queues) and all the trials 10 times and all the boss fates(let's say once since they mentioned they might reduce that requirement) and then you need to spend 2000 sol on some Thavnarian acid and 10000 myth on some Doman sake and you have your relic. Sounds about right...

[Cyrus-Wallace]

Wouldn't expect much Cyrus, Madruck is pretty much the forum's equivalent to a doomsday-sayer on the sidewalk for XIV's "decline".

Thanks for pointing it out.

RNG is not going anywhere, it's pretty much the complaint in a lot of MMO's forums, not only here. Every forum you visit that touches this subject you read the typical comments about "It's hurting the game", "it's going to kill the game", etc. Who is complaining about this? the people who didn't have good luck. Who doesn't? The ones who got their stuff. What's the ratio between these two groups? I don't know. I CAN'T use my experience with the Atma to elaborate a solid opinion about this, but to see things from above. The problem is: I'm not working for the dev. team. I can't see the statistics of the obtain ratio of these Atmas. I can't see how many Atma/Animus/Novus weapons are around. I can't talk with every people of every FC, of every server, of every datacenter to gather all the data I need.

My opinion: I know the dev. team listen to people's complaints also. You can say that something is no working well and they'll work on it. That's why we received the Alex phase of the quest, which is less RNG dependant, but it still uses it. There're differences, though, it's not the same to gather 12 stones than 75 stones. So, as I can notice, they HAD to implement an alternative on that one. The first phase of the relic is a different story. There was not much content available back then, so they had to use whatever they had to make it possible. The books were an smart decision but again, limited to the current content. So, I have variety in this quest. I'm not tied to the mercy of the RNG Gods everytime. I suffer with this in the SCOB a lot, but meh, RNG is RNG. It feels more rewarding when I'm getting something that I've been looking for ages.

[Silma]

I absolutly hate ATMA farming. I'm a casual 36yo player. The idea of blindly farming something with no idea of how many chances i have for a drop is beyond me. AND you need 12 Atmas.
I think i would have prefered any kind of farming but this.
Atma drops every 100 fates in the zone is a better idea.
Getting your ilvl100 weapon after 1000 atmas in total is a better idea.
Atma drops in a very special fate poping every 8hrs is a better idea.

Anything but blind farming please.

[Lemuria]

I for one have yet to hear a single person voice a genuinely positive attitude towards Atma grinding, whether in-game or on the forums. It seems to be one of those things which is universally loathed, and with good reason. It's not a fun grind, it's not a worthwhile grind. You literally get nothing out of it for hours at a time aside from about a few hundred gil and some rather worthless GC seals.

And that's where the crux of the problem lies. I think people would be more inclined to enjoy it if Fates themselves were WORTH doing. Aside from a small number of specific fates which drop minions, there is almost no incentive to actually run Fates. That's why these 'forced' incentives feel like clumsy, square-peg-into-round-hole methods to make them relevant.

Fates could have been a way to make the world feel vibrant, like a living breathing world. Instead they're mini-missions that can't be relied on to spawn at a given time, offer no real rewards, and there are no real consequences to failure. That, good people, is why the Atma grind truly sucks. Make Fates interesting, and you've solved everyone's problems at once.

[Kaethra]

Would any of you do the Atma grind if you got nothing for it?

That's a question any game developer should ask themselves whenever they make content for a game. If you or your players wouldn't play through something without a reward. Then it means its not fun and should not be placed in the game.

It seems Atma grinds are collectively about 10-15 hours of Fates (this can be spread out over a long time). And personally I see nothing wrong with the time it takes to get them. But I do have a problem with how boring and unfun they can be. Yeah you can tolerate them through listening to music while grinding, chatting on teamspeak, or just having the mental discipline to tough it out.

But no one would do it without a reward. And, that is the problem. That is where the main complaint comes from. The process to obtain the Atma weapon needs to be changed from 15 hours of boring to 15 (or longer if they want) of fun.

[swordrain]

snip

Your time is off by a very large margin. There are many, many, MANY people who are beyond 50+ hours of farming. I used both of my days off today and yesterday, and in total I've gone up over 900 fates since I started atma farming, and I've only got two to show for it. I've done most of these solo. It's been months and months, I've completely forgotten about the rest of the game, all I've done all day everyday is atma atma atma atma atma atma, I almost quit the game earlier because I was in such terrible despair over this. My boyfriend has finally convinced me to just give up because the system is broken and (as he put it) the devs are complete idiots to think that I don't deserve anything for the work I put it.

I'm sure there are many people out there who've had even worse luck. They probably aren't playing anymore.

[Kiara1]

I can't believe people still make threads about atma.
If you don't like it there are other ways to get better weapons.

Doing the books for Animus is faaar worse than doing some fates for atmas (and I swear fates are the worst idea anyone has ever had)
I'd rather do 100 fates, than sitting at the same spot for 3 hours doing nothing but waiting for ONE fate to spawn.
And you need to do this 3 times for each book.

If I got to decide, they should remove fates from this game. It's a nice idea on paper, but SE are forcing them upon us. We don't like being lower level out in the open world killing monsters with no fatal mechanics or nothing exciting.
Whoever got the idea that FATES might be fun for players should never share anything that pops into their head (

[Duelle]

Doing the books for Animus is faaar worse than doing some fates for atmas (and I swear fates are the worst idea anyone has ever had)
I'd rather do 100 fates, than sitting at the same spot for 3 hours doing nothing but waiting for ONE fate to spawn.
And you need to do this 3 times for each book.

The only thing that would need to be done there would be to change it from specific fates to something like "clear 10 FATEs in <insert zone name>". If 10 is not enough the make the number bigger.

FATEs are fine within the context of its original intent: leveling content. The issues started when the devs began to gate content and now a facet of progression through FATEs.

[Tsukino]

Even if you ignore the issues that a large number of people have with getting them, it only makes sense to ease the process along with everything else. As the average/max item level increases and as other steps are made easier or shorter to obtain things of similar or higher levels, then so too should atma.

When they changed out the tomestones in 2.2, zenith became much easier to obtain since mythology was both uncapped and more plentiful. At the same time, other equipment of similar level was also easier, and there was more overall obtainable (Second Coil).

In 2.3 they drastically increased mythology output and also added things which have made obtaining level 100 and 110 equipment easier (Syrcus Tower, hunts). This has actually put atma in a bit of an odd spot, because the animus step was made shorter due to the mythology cost of books while the atma step remained the same. Not only that, but due to hunts and Syrcus Tower it's also much easier to get a Gerolt's masterwork weapon and upgrade it.

If they keep it where it is, it will only continue to get further behind current content until literally no one bothers with relic weapons and atma at all. So while it's in an odd place now, it's almost certain it will be alleviated, and soon.

[Felis]

To compare Ragnorok Online to FF14, WoW or any hardline MMO as these is a poor argument as read about the game online. RO is F2P....and I promise that these mechanics that plagued those players lead to its downfall as well. If you are truly going to compare a game to this....try Diablo 2 or Diablo 3 which is based clearly on Low RNG.....but Diablo is not WoW or is it SWTOR or FF14 in styles of gameplay. SE dropped the ball on game design and numerous posts for the past 6 months in regards to the subject about people stating the same thing as I am is clear proof and thats all that needs to be said!

She mean Ragnarok Online 2002-2007
0.01% droprate for cards while paying sub.