Game Devs: Don't make easier challenges, just reward people!

[Colt47]

After perusing the forum and seeing both ends of the argument for bahamut's coil and other hard content, it just sort of occurred to me that no one really is concerned with the content itself, but whether they enjoy doing the content and are getting rewarded for the time they have to invest to get that content done. Whether someone is casual and only has limited time to play or is a hardcore player, both sides want to see rewards for their efforts, and there's definitely ways for them to achieve that without having to mess with multiple difficulties and other shinanigans.

What if the fights, instead of rewarding people only if they complete them all the way through, rewarded people by phase? When we run duty roulette, we get myth, gil, and sometimes soldiery and company seals, so why not reward those things for each attempt on a boss depending on how far the group has made it each time?

If the "rewards per phase" were awarded daily, that would at least convince people to give the fights a few runs per day without feeling like they are losing out on something. Heck, right now there isn't much reason why there can't be rewarded gil each time we fight a boss and make it past each phase.

Would this change involve having to tweak gil sinks? Probably, but it's probably a better direction to take for everyone then to try and have to develop multiple versions of the same fight like they are doing in WoW.

In Summary: End game raiding in hardmode is about the journey to victory, not necessarily the victory itself. Just reward people for it and more people will be willing to do it and put up with teaching others how to do it.

[Woggers]

I appreciate your suggestion but I like the current format. Its probably not what you are trying to say, but to me it sounds like you want hand outs for your time invested if you can't beat it. Personally I don't like this. You're basically being rewarded for failing.
I can also see people farming gil/myth/sold this way. Do the first phase of t6 or t7, collect reward, wipe, restart. So essentially you are being rewarded for doing nothing. 1 phase on those turns last 1.5-2 mins. Seems pretty broken to me

[Itseotle]

Why is it always DRGs? ;_; were not all terrible ya know *pouts*

[Mikedizzy]

This sounds like a good idea on the surface but would not work and would IMO ruin the game a little. I just got my first Turn 5 kill about 4 days ago and it felt "GREAT!". It felt great because me and my FC put in a ton of work...many nights spending all our playtime and not getting anything else done and failing. The satisfaction comes from putting in the work and then getting your goal accomplished. T5 is kind of a big step in this game for most people. I would like to see some stats on what percentage of people have completed T5...I bet it is much less than half if not 1/4. I think if you take away the way it functions now then you take away the "Rewarding Feeling of Accomplishment" you get when you finally get it down.(Kind of like Titan HM for some people back in the day).

[Colt47]

The point isn't to necessarily front load the fights so that they turn into "lets farm phases 1-3 and back out." The idea is that when a group progresses in a fight, they reach milestones and get rewarded for the progress instead of only receiving a reward from completing the whole thing. The rewards would ramp up the further someone manages to make it and culminate in the end with people getting the gear they are actually aiming for.

The point is to make the fight about the journey, because in all honesty end game encounters that involve these dances are about getting better as a group and making it through the trial. Also, this would make fights like Turn 5 coil or Titan EX much more palatable for newcomers and perhaps promote people to stay in and try to learn the fights for a longer period of time. It would also help free up peoples obligation to the grind they must go through outside of the raiding experience, as that is also a barrier to some degree for people.

[Fendred]

The best part about being on these forums is the fact people come on and offer their input on the game in constructive ways. It's these kinds of dialogues that help accelerate the betterment of a game, and I hope that these discussions help the developers find a good balance for the game's myriad audience.

[ariaandkia]

Personally, I would like to see if they really raised the 'bar' in terms of these things.

Right now, there is no reason to journey out of your regular group and help new players (such as by duty roulette). There honestly isn't. I keep seeing people who do Duty Finder or roulette and soon as there is a duty that they don't like or someone is new? Boom, they leave. Sometimes it is a group that leaves.

I think we need a few things, honestly. The buffs don't really make the challenges that much easier, they just change how you go about things.

I think what we need is a change up.

For example. If one person has finished the duty before (specifically talking about 50+ content here) and several (at least 3) people have not, then there should be a major loot buff at the end where the players that have beaten the duty before get a significant boost in what they get out of it.

For example: Major free/grand company seal gain, the new currency, the old currencies, etc. This could be significantly higher than the weeklies and S rank hunts so that there is a good reason to try. This way, people have a reason to actually try. For example, at about 5-10 A ranks in an hour being about 200 of the new currency, if there are at least 3 new players in a duty finder party and the person joined as a single person or at most 3 members (tank, healer, dps) (in other words, not premade) they could get 200 of the new currency per new player (aka a minimum of 600 and a maximum of 1400). That plus significant boosts to the other currencies obtained would increase the motivation to help new players in duty finder.

As an additional thought for a bonus, when doing the "daily" roulette bonuses as the adventurer in need. Have it so that any currency bonus resets after 1-2 hours of completion and make it so that there are two roles-one with the full bonus and one that gets half. Abandoning the mission before the first 15 minutes is up (aka. the vote is not availabe) could have an additional penalty of not having the bonus available for 8-24 hours depending on how often they abandoned in a rolling 30 day period (each abandonment before 15 minutes would add 1 hour). In addition, allow for some of the newer currencies to be obtained through the roulette method. This way, people are encouraged to go back and help people and discouraged from just giving up.

In addition, allow experienced players (players that have passed) to join with a loot hunt for a different class when using duty finder. If everyone is experienced, then nothing happens, but if someone is new, the "need" rolls could change so that now they can need on whatever class they opted in as (but not whatever class they joined in as unless it is the same class). This way, people would have reason to stay.

For pre-formed parties, you could potentially allow every player to choose that function since they'd have the party already formed. This function could potentially display as say a small icon in the corner of the class icon. This would allow players to look for items of another class while still playing on a class that they are better at or that is needed.

Another thing that could be done is to have an additional option for a party finder that spans multiple servers. This way, people could arrange to play with a player that they met during a duty or that they know in real life. This party finder option would only allow for duties-no comments and no ability to change from the default join requirements, just a duty name and the party leader and their server. This way, people can actually work together between servers. This would allow for people to do content together.

Maybe even add in bonuses for playing with people that you haven't played with if they make up over half the party (3 in a 4 player, 5 in an 8 player, 13 in a 24 player).

Essentially, make it so that people have reasons to play with people that they aren't familiar with.

[Colt47]

I like Ariaandkia's idea. Actually, one of the ways I was thinking they could pull off the reward structure I mentioned earlier is have the bard in Rev. Toll try to make new songs about our exploits defeating primals, only he is trying to make the song and is doing it verse by verse, so we play through each phase of the EX fight piecemeal. Once we get through the entire thing then it's safe to say the person is ready to try the real thing with some degree of confidence.

[Coatl]

Why the heck would you do coil for anything but fun progression. You don't even need any of its drops outside of its own instance. My static plans to complete second and third coil, but I really don't think bigger numbers is what's motivating us.

[Sapphic]

Why the heck would you do coil for anything but fun progression. You don't even need any of its drops outside of its own instance. My static plans to complete second and third coil, but I really don't think bigger numbers is what's motivating us.

Exactly, I wouldn't be running coil unless I found it fun. Drops are just a bonus to help us progress. You can spot the attention deficit egotistical raiders from those standing AFK in Revs Toll with weapon drawn.

@ ariaandkia
I like to help new players in roullete, if party is struggling, I take it as an added challenge to get them through to completion which after gives a sense of personal satisfaction and hopefully a good experience for the others. So yes there is reason, maybe not for you, as past experience shows people base opinions on their own outlook, which is not necessarily true for all.