Rogue/Ninja Starting Class?

[Dhex]

I seriously doubt that.

It honestly doesn't matter to anyone posting on here really - you're all (so far as I've seen) already lv50 and if you're not through 2.2 story you easily can pass "Through the Maelstrom" by 2.4 and have Ninja introduced in whatever goofy manner you advocate for - it won't hurt your "play-through" narrative.

It will however hurt a new player's narrative.

[MageBlack]

It honestly doesn't matter to anyone posting on here really - you're all (so far as I've seen) already lv50 and if you're not through 2.2 story you easily can pass "Through the Maelstrom" by 2.4 and have Ninja introduced in whatever goofy manner you advocate for - it won't hurt your "play-through" narrative.

It will however hurt a new player's narrative.

I know exactly the scene you are talking about. That too is a bone of contention for me and a hurdle that the Devs will need to overcome/address to make it cohesive if they are making this a starting class. Your unwillingness to entertain the idea that it could be possible for them to braid the R/N story into the existing world lore as it has been presented is something you continually ignore. Many ideas on how that could be done have been presented quite a few times in this thread and thats just from random dudes and dudettes who are players. I'm pretty sure that the Ninja and Rogue were in development and planning long before they announced it to us. I also seriously doubt they would have planned all this lore and story at level 50 to tease current players with the new class/job and not taken any of the issues raised into consideration.

Honestly, I'm about 60-40 on which way this will head. I recognize your arguments and those of several other posters here but I also acknowledge things the Devs have said along with their overarching concepts for the game. Two things make me think he wont start gating classes and jobs behind level or story requirements until after the first official expansion and they are:
- Yoshi-P's repeated statement on accessibility to all ranges of player types (those "filthy" casuals)
- Yoshi-P saying he felt this particular class/job was missing from the original lineup and this is why we are seeing it before the expansion.

I know you might want it to be locked away so people have to work for this new job and you might be worried that if newbs can get the class at start that it somehow might be "unfair". But "Lore" can easily be fixed, repaired, or added to with.... more lore! Just because you cant think of any way for it to work does not mean the devs havent. All I'm asking is for you to say that it might be possible for them to make it happen from a starting character perspective, even if you don't think they will.

[silentwindfr]

Honestly, I'm about 60-40 on which way this will head. I recognize your arguments and those of several other posters here but I also acknowledge things the Devs have said along with their overarching concepts for the game. Two things make me think he wont start gating classes and jobs behind level or story requirements until after the first official expansion and they are:
- Yoshi-P's repeated statement on accessibility to all ranges of player types (those "filthy" casuals)
- Yoshi-P saying he felt this particular class/job was missing from the original lineup and this is why we are seeing it before the expansion.

i want to answer to that part in particular, since it seems to be a misunderstanding from your part on this (if you allows me).

" - Yoshi-P's repeated statement on accessibility to all ranges of player types "
he means there, that it will recquire nothing special or skill or time sink for get acces to something. the story quest, is not a time sink, it's the backbone of the whole game, it's can't and mustn't be ignored. it's what make this game what it is. get a level 50 and do the story quest are accessible to anybody, the only difference will be time... but we already have seen that it was not a trouble for them, with the relic quest... it's accessible, however it ask a long dedication.

" - Yoshi-P saying he felt this particular class/job was missing from the original lineup and this is why we are seeing it before the expansion. "
yes, like he feel that a two hand sword and gunner class are missing too. sadly they will not be a starting class, he was simply saying that the order of how the class will be added was look at... mostly for decide what was the most important and urgent to be added. not that it must be a starting class.
he was just saying that the game was missing this and was needed.

all of this for say, i highly doubt that any class that will come from now (exept rare exeption like class tie to a race, and even that i doubt they will do it) will be added to the roster of the starting class, they will all be unlocked through our story quest or progression in the world.
see it like this... you are beginning to your city and begin to explore the world, discovering new technique and new way to fight. that how it work...

ps; i still think that one class will maybe be added in the roster to the starting class and it will be probably the gunner class that was asked for more of 4 years now. but even this can't be sure. (it's the only other class that have a guild appearing somewhere with a sign and place already installed)

[MageBlack]

Thank you for the reply! Just to clarify, i'm not really bothered either way by how they do it but I did want to expand on a few points. I do understand the Lore argument you keep coming back to, it's the reason I'm not 100% so i have no argument against that, only questions about how they could handle it.

" - Yoshi-P's repeated statement on accessibility to all ranges of player types "
he means there, that it will recquire nothing special or skill or time sink for get acces to something. the story quest, is not a time sink, it's the backbone of the whole game, it's can't and mustn't be ignored. it's what make this game what it is. get a level 50 and do the story quest are accessible to anybody, the only difference will be time... but we already have seen that it was not a trouble for them, with the relic quest... it's accessible, however it ask a long dedication.

You seem to think that by adding in the classes from the start one would have to ignore the story that currently exists. I have never said that, only presented some ideas for possible ways to circumvent, supplement, or enhance what is already there. I have seen many other posts here with ideas on how it could work and if fans can come up with ways, I'm pretty sure the devs could too, and in a much better way too.

The other points you made are valid, it could be very easily gated behind level restrictions, that would be the easy route but only lore wise. How would it work? You hit 50, unlock rogue(?) and you are level one? or is rogue a starting class but you can't be a ninja until you unlock it through the story making you be a rogue until level 50? I'm not sure how it would work, but i'm sure there is a way.

" - Yoshi-P saying he felt this particular class/job was missing from the original lineup and this is why we are seeing it before the expansion. "
yes, like he feel that a two hand sword and gunner class are missing too. sadly they will not be a starting class, he was simply saying that the order of how the class will be added was look at... mostly for decide what was the most important and urgent to be added. not that it must be a starting class. he was just saying that the game was missing this and was needed.

http://www.tale-ffxiv.com/boards/top...-e3-interview/

When was the decision made to add a class before the expansion?

We do have plans to release new jobs and new classes at the expansion; it wasn't like we took a job and class from that expansion and decided to release it early. We've always planned to release a new class and new job at a patch.

We've always thought that we needed a scout or a technical type of class. It's one thing that we didn't have in FFXIV and we wanted it, especially with the release of the large scale PvP. We wanted a class or a job that could do the scouting and stealth type of actions, so it was just natural to bring in that type of class to coincide with PvP and that type of content. The fact that the players have been begging for a thief-type class or a ninja-type class for a long time, we're happy that we can bring that to the fans ahead of the time that they expected.

The interview I got this from had the actual reasons for adding it, I'll copy it here and let you take what you will from it. what I took from it could mean it is intended to be something we will have access to from the start of the game. He didnt add it because of the weapon, he added it because a stealth class was missing. Stealth would be useful as a starting class moreso than the other classes you mentioned since it brings a new element of play to the game. The musketeer is "just another ranged" and will play its own unique way but does not bring anything new to way the game is played. Same with two handed sword, just a new weapon you swing and hit stuff with.

Now, despite what I just said about it, it could still function the same way behind gated content. Also one of the reasons he gave in the article was PvP specifically frontlines and that is restricted to level 50 so if thats the only reason it would fit well with it still being gated behind lore and levels.

Hope this clarifies my position a bit! Cheers!

[Giantbane]

It honestly doesn't matter to anyone posting on here really - you're all (so far as I've seen) already lv50 and if you're not through 2.2 story you easily can pass "Through the Maelstrom" by 2.4 and have Ninja introduced in whatever goofy manner you advocate for - it won't hurt your "play-through" narrative.

It will however hurt a new player's narrative.

I think a new player is going to more bothered by having a huge hurdle to unlock ninja than they would be by a limited break in the narrative. And lets be honest, most people won't even notice it unless you point it out. And those that do will take ... what? 5-6 minutes to get over it?

[ZReport]

I think a new player is going to more bothered by having a huge hurdle to unlock ninja than they would be by a limited break in the narrative. And lets be honest, most people won't even notice it unless you point it out. And those that do will take ... what? 5-6 minutes to get over it?

I still don't believe it to be a hurdle. It's simply too easy to level a job to 50 and do some quest leg work if it plays out like that. If they want to play Ninja they will get over it and do whatever it takes easily.

[Giantbane]

I still don't believe it to be a hurdle. It's simply too easy to level a job to 50 and do some quest leg work if it plays out like that. If they want to play Ninja they will get over it and do whatever it takes easily.

They have gone to great lengths to attract casual players. While you and I and ... probably anybody posting on this board may not consider the 30-60 hours it would take to unlock Ninja from scratch (as you are proposing), it is more daunting for a real casual player that may only play a few hours a week.

They won't even see the narrative break until they're well into the game and are already hooked. The "you have to play though most of the main story to unlock ninja" is something they get presented with early when they've not really formed an attachment to the game. In comparison, the break in the narrative is so much less likely to bother a new player.


Even then, that's only considering bare minimum implementation where they *do* break narrative and don't find some way to make the story work (which they're pretty good about).