Rogue/Ninja Starting Class?

[SDaemon]

Well of course they won't be barred from pre 2.4 content.... If rogues and ninjas are locked behind storyline missions then it just means we cant be trained until we get passed that point in the game.

You would have already levelled a character to 50 which would be a starting class and therefore they would have access to pre 2.4 content...?

Except lorewise rog and nin didn't exist when traversing Coils 1 and 2 with Alisaie or braving CT or ST together with Cid. Lorewise you can't possibly be rog or nin doing this. That is the line of reasoning she is supporting and its ridiculous. Its that same reasoning people are arguing to lock this class/job behind story, when regardless the story does not change, the story has already happened. Its in the past and you being a rog or nin going through it doesn't change the story that has been told.

[Dhex]

Except lorewise rog and nin didn't exist when traversing Coils 1 and 2 with Alisaie or braving CT or ST together with Cid. Lorewise you can't possibly be rog or nin doing this. That is the line of reasoning she is supporting and its ridiculous. Its that same reasoning people are arguing to lock this class/job behind story, when regardless the story does not change, the story has already happened. Its in the past and you being a rog or nin going through it doesn't change the story that has been told.

You're confusing what's called timeline vs. continuous narrative.

I beat Ifrit EX mode - I got the cutscene but I still go back and fight him - but that doesn't disrupt the quest line because the quest line is over. Being a Ninja before the person that is going to teach you about being a Ninja even arrives ruins the continuous narrative of the story.

[SDaemon]

You're confusing what's called timeline vs. continuous narrative.

How exactly? lol

[Dhex]

How exactly? lol

If you're done with the storyline it doesn't matter you're not experiencing it for the first time anymore - we're specifically talking about new players.

If you read the book cover to cover the first time - you can go back and read a single chapter and not have it be ruined because you've already got the narrative.

All people are saying here - is that if you get the Ninja chapter before reading the book it's breaking the narrative.

[MageBlack]

If you're done with the storyline it doesn't matter you're not experiencing it for the first time anymore - we're specifically talking about new players.

If you read the book cover to cover the first time - you can go back and read a single chapter and not have it be ruined because you've already got the narrative.

All people are saying here - is that if you get the Ninja chapter before reading the book it's breaking the narrative.

I understand what you mean but it in no way means that the R/N storyline cant add to the current narrative in such a way to tie loose ends together. This is not an advanced class/job, YP said the only reason hes adding this class/job in now is because he felt it was missing from the original lineup. otherwise it would wait until an expansion. I'm not disagreeing with the lore arguments only saying that it is possible to have this as a starting class without breaking the game and immersion. If you can't imagine that then thats a lack of creative thinking on your part. Will they have jobs locked behind story and levels? sure, eventually. will this be the first one, I seriously doubt that.

[Dhex]

I seriously doubt that.

It honestly doesn't matter to anyone posting on here really - you're all (so far as I've seen) already lv50 and if you're not through 2.2 story you easily can pass "Through the Maelstrom" by 2.4 and have Ninja introduced in whatever goofy manner you advocate for - it won't hurt your "play-through" narrative.

It will however hurt a new player's narrative.

[MageBlack]

It honestly doesn't matter to anyone posting on here really - you're all (so far as I've seen) already lv50 and if you're not through 2.2 story you easily can pass "Through the Maelstrom" by 2.4 and have Ninja introduced in whatever goofy manner you advocate for - it won't hurt your "play-through" narrative.

It will however hurt a new player's narrative.

I know exactly the scene you are talking about. That too is a bone of contention for me and a hurdle that the Devs will need to overcome/address to make it cohesive if they are making this a starting class. Your unwillingness to entertain the idea that it could be possible for them to braid the R/N story into the existing world lore as it has been presented is something you continually ignore. Many ideas on how that could be done have been presented quite a few times in this thread and thats just from random dudes and dudettes who are players. I'm pretty sure that the Ninja and Rogue were in development and planning long before they announced it to us. I also seriously doubt they would have planned all this lore and story at level 50 to tease current players with the new class/job and not taken any of the issues raised into consideration.

Honestly, I'm about 60-40 on which way this will head. I recognize your arguments and those of several other posters here but I also acknowledge things the Devs have said along with their overarching concepts for the game. Two things make me think he wont start gating classes and jobs behind level or story requirements until after the first official expansion and they are:
- Yoshi-P's repeated statement on accessibility to all ranges of player types (those "filthy" casuals)
- Yoshi-P saying he felt this particular class/job was missing from the original lineup and this is why we are seeing it before the expansion.

I know you might want it to be locked away so people have to work for this new job and you might be worried that if newbs can get the class at start that it somehow might be "unfair". But "Lore" can easily be fixed, repaired, or added to with.... more lore! Just because you cant think of any way for it to work does not mean the devs havent. All I'm asking is for you to say that it might be possible for them to make it happen from a starting character perspective, even if you don't think they will.

[Giantbane]

It honestly doesn't matter to anyone posting on here really - you're all (so far as I've seen) already lv50 and if you're not through 2.2 story you easily can pass "Through the Maelstrom" by 2.4 and have Ninja introduced in whatever goofy manner you advocate for - it won't hurt your "play-through" narrative.

It will however hurt a new player's narrative.

I think a new player is going to more bothered by having a huge hurdle to unlock ninja than they would be by a limited break in the narrative. And lets be honest, most people won't even notice it unless you point it out. And those that do will take ... what? 5-6 minutes to get over it?

[JakzChurchill]

I understand what you mean but it in no way means that the R/N storyline cant add to the current narrative in such a way to tie loose ends together. This is not an advanced class/job, YP said the only reason hes adding this class/job in now is because he felt it was missing from the original lineup. otherwise it would wait until an expansion. I'm not disagreeing with the lore arguments only saying that it is possible to have this as a starting class without breaking the game and immersion. If you can't imagine that then thats a lack of creative thinking on your part. Will they have jobs locked behind story and levels? sure, eventually. will this be the first one, I seriously doubt that.

This post pretty much hits the nail on the head.

[whiskeybravo]

If you're done with the storyline it doesn't matter you're not experiencing it for the first time anymore - we're specifically talking about new players.

If you read the book cover to cover the first time - you can go back and read a single chapter and not have it be ruined because you've already got the narrative.

All people are saying here - is that if you get the Ninja chapter before reading the book it's breaking the narrative.

It doesn't seem that difficult to have rogue/ninja "chapters" before knowing the whole story of how rogue/ninja came to Eorzea. I still think Revenant's Toll is a good comparison, as new players don't know how it's changed over time, they only see what it is now. Rogue/Ninja would be similar, you have a storyline like any other class/job, then the culmination of how it came to be at the end. You don't have to tell the full story upfront. Veteran players know, and new players come to find out. Simple.