Rogue/Ninja Starting Class?

[MageBlack]

Some people just actually like consistency when it comes to the story and flow of the world. "Echo" already is such a jarring element, at least let the story remain consistent

I'm sure SE will keep it consistent, they are pretty good for story. Besides, they have a nice little loophole, the echo. That could even introduce 1.0's story as a playable expansion at a later date. Also, Yuguri said she would start training Eorzeans. That can mean, your average Erozean gets to now know about the society. The most Jarring element, for me, will be where Thancred is surprised and amazed with Yuguri's moves in a combined fight scene, "I've never seen anyone fight like that before" which would be redundant if you are a NIN playing through the story. Thancred would have seen you fight at some point...

[LineageRazor]

it should definitely be locked behind the story quests, it makes zero sense to be able to become a rogue/ninja before you even meet yugiri and the rest of the doman emigrants

Yugiri has nothing to do with being a Rogue. Rogue is Thancred's thing, and he mentioned a secret guild in Limsa Lominsa where this style of fighting is taught. This can be open to players at anypoint in the storyline without causing severe lore issues (just little stuff, like how surprised folks are by Thancred's fighting style when the player has been using that style openly all along).

While I don't recall Yugiri's dialogue clearly, I remember it more that she offers to teach her style of fighting in order to repay the Scions and the Mor Dhonans for their kindness. She offers to teach in general - she doesn't specifically offer to teach the player character, but rather anyone who wishes to learn (which may include the player character). Yugiri is also very likely not the only Ninja in existance. Therefore, if we do learn ninjutsu, it will not necessarily be from Yugiri.

If we accept that Yugiri will not necessarily be the Job NPC for Ninja (she's teaching ninjutsu, but she's not the one who teaches YOU ninjutsu), that opens the gates wide for SE to add any of a number of lore-safe alternatives. Perhaps the player, a level 30+ Rogue, will run into a Doman ninja who is traveling away from home. Impressed and intrigued by the player's fighting style, this wandering ninja offers to teach the player his or her art.

Even if I'm misremembering something, and it WAS stated that all ninja but Yugiri were wiped out, there are plenty of ways around it - our instructor could be a rogue ninja long thought dead by his or her people who fled his or her homeland for whatever reason.

To sum up, access to both NIN and ROG can exist comfortably without upsetting lore.

[Cluebilly]

The most Jarring element, for me, will be where Thancred is surprised and amazed with Yuguri's moves in a combined fight scene, "I've never seen anyone fight like that before" which would be redundant if you are a NIN playing through the story. Thancred would have seen you fight at some point...

Actually I think he hasn't...I may be remembering wrong, but Thancred sort of up and disappears as early as Titan segment of the story, and before that the Player hasn't unlocked their job. Then he's gone for most of 2.0 and then in 2.1-2.2 I think he's just resting up at base. Lastly in 2.3 we split up so he could actually in fact never have seen our skills at that point. Again, I may just be remembering wrong so feel free to correct me

[Niwashi]

The most Jarring element, for me, will be where Thancred is surprised and amazed with Yuguri's moves in a combined fight scene, "I've never seen anyone fight like that before" which would be redundant if you are a NIN playing through the story. Thancred would have seen you fight at some point...

So maybe he won't say that if the player reaches that scene after ROG/NIN are added. There are already early game scenes that play out differently according to where you started the game, or which GC you join. There could just as well be late game scenes that play out differently according to when you reach them. All SE needs to ensure is that each pattern is consistent to itself. It doesn't have to be the same thing somebody else saw.

[MageBlack]

Actually I think he hasn't...I may be remembering wrong, but Thancred sort of up and disappears as early as Titan segment of the story, and before that the Player hasn't unlocked their job. Then he's gone for most of 2.0 and then in 2.1-2.2 I think he's just resting up at base. Lastly in 2.3 we split up so he could actually in fact never have seen our skills at that point. Again, I may just be remembering wrong so feel free to correct me

Well, you have to fight Lahabrea at the very least and Thancred never said he lost memories of that time only that he wishes he could forget. I'm sure there was other times where you fought alongside Thancred and a few other Scions but I cant remember if its pre or post 30. That could be the difference.

[Cluebilly]

As far as I can recall you only fight alongside the scions...not a lot of times. Thancred in particular I believe is only with you during the early missions (about level 9 or so). And he isn't present during the Coerthas segment or the Scion rescue segment for obvious reasons by that point

[ZReport]

Ridiculous role play reasoning, that you are using to pick and choose accessibility. If people want rog and nin to be restricted to post 2.4 story, then those same people should be advocating that anything pre 2.4 should be off limits to rog and nin. Because lore demands it yes?

It's more ridiculous for you to believe that Yoshi-P will completely forgo the lore he has already set in place to make a few more people happy. You act as if there are tons of people who haven't at least beaten Ultima Weapon SM yet, which is no longer the case.

Also, I'm not even here to advocate it being restricted to post 2.4 story, if you read my paragraphs correctly you would have seen that my guess is post 2.2. I don't even think that Ninja and Rogue will even bet part of the Main Scenario at all at this point afterwards, only that that specific 2.2 quest being a prerequisite to unlocking them. This isn't anything new to MMOs -- in WoW you have to be 55 just to play Death Knight, in FFXI you need to be 30 to access any of the advanced jobs. Personally, I could care less if it was story locked or not, I just know how FFXIV (and FFXI before it) works.

FFXIV is heavily lore-based, if you think for a minute that the team will deviate or mess with it in any way, you're greatly mistaken.

[ZReport]

snip

This is Yugiri's dialogue with the Shady Guy:

Shady Guy: Ah, and you must be the Far Easterner what Merlwyb says wants to train with us. Welcome to Limsa, milady!
Yugiri: I am Yugiri of Doma. 'Tis an honor to make your acquaintance.
Yugiri: I must confess, when first I learned of your organization, I had certain...preconceptions as to the nature of your membership. It would seem I was mistaken.
Shady Guy: You're not the first person to say that, lass. Limsa's a city of pirates, to be sure, and pirates don't give two farts about keepin' a spotless reputation. They hardly need a secret society to do their dirty work.
Shady Guy: Might be as my people and I keep to the shadows, but we've got nothin' to be ashamed of. It's simply better for business that we remain unseen.
Yugiri: And so you have developed fighting techniques suited to this purpose. I see. Know that the practitioners of my art, too, are denizens of shadow. 'Tis in stealth that our strength lies. There is much we might learn from one another, I think.
Shady Guy: Then what in the seven hells are we waitin' for? If you'd come with us, Yugerry of Do-whatsit, we can get acquainted in more private surrounds... Hah, that didn't come out right, did it!?
Yugiri: <Player>. I shall remain with these people for a time, that I might study their ways.
Yugiri: Though I am loath to be separated from my countrymen, I take solace in the knowledge that they are in the best of hands.
Yugiri: You have been a true friend to us Domans. No words would suffice to express my gratitude.
Yugiri: Ere long, I hope to begin imparting my martial knowledge to the people of Eorzea. When that time comes, it would be my honor to welcome you as a student.

She made it pretty clear that:

1) She seeks to teach the people of Eorzea the way of the Ninja after training and learning from the Rogue Guild.

and

2) There are other practitioners of her art in existence.

It's not a dead art, and she may very well delegate some of the Ninja training to her associates. It makes absolutely no sense at all for Yugiri to be around before the 2.2 storyline if you are a new player. The player character doesn't know of her existence or the fact that Ninja exist. You can make the argument for Rogue however, as it is an art that was refined in Limsa Lominsa.

[Dhex]

What if the phantom thief from the Hildebrand quest-line is actually the Rogue guildmaster and when he is caught and unmasked (in 2.4?) he will return to Limsa Lominsa and begin training people as penance for his crimes?


The laughs that affords are worth their weight in gold.

[SDaemon]

DKs are a horrible support for your stance. Together with pandaren and monks and just the entire zones for BC and Wrath makes WoW a horrible example to try and argue consistency...