Rogue/Ninja Starting Class?

[LineageRazor]

it should definitely be locked behind the story quests, it makes zero sense to be able to become a rogue/ninja before you even meet yugiri and the rest of the doman emigrants

Yugiri has nothing to do with being a Rogue. Rogue is Thancred's thing, and he mentioned a secret guild in Limsa Lominsa where this style of fighting is taught. This can be open to players at anypoint in the storyline without causing severe lore issues (just little stuff, like how surprised folks are by Thancred's fighting style when the player has been using that style openly all along).

While I don't recall Yugiri's dialogue clearly, I remember it more that she offers to teach her style of fighting in order to repay the Scions and the Mor Dhonans for their kindness. She offers to teach in general - she doesn't specifically offer to teach the player character, but rather anyone who wishes to learn (which may include the player character). Yugiri is also very likely not the only Ninja in existance. Therefore, if we do learn ninjutsu, it will not necessarily be from Yugiri.

If we accept that Yugiri will not necessarily be the Job NPC for Ninja (she's teaching ninjutsu, but she's not the one who teaches YOU ninjutsu), that opens the gates wide for SE to add any of a number of lore-safe alternatives. Perhaps the player, a level 30+ Rogue, will run into a Doman ninja who is traveling away from home. Impressed and intrigued by the player's fighting style, this wandering ninja offers to teach the player his or her art.

Even if I'm misremembering something, and it WAS stated that all ninja but Yugiri were wiped out, there are plenty of ways around it - our instructor could be a rogue ninja long thought dead by his or her people who fled his or her homeland for whatever reason.

To sum up, access to both NIN and ROG can exist comfortably without upsetting lore.

[ZReport]

snip

This is Yugiri's dialogue with the Shady Guy:

Shady Guy: Ah, and you must be the Far Easterner what Merlwyb says wants to train with us. Welcome to Limsa, milady!
Yugiri: I am Yugiri of Doma. 'Tis an honor to make your acquaintance.
Yugiri: I must confess, when first I learned of your organization, I had certain...preconceptions as to the nature of your membership. It would seem I was mistaken.
Shady Guy: You're not the first person to say that, lass. Limsa's a city of pirates, to be sure, and pirates don't give two farts about keepin' a spotless reputation. They hardly need a secret society to do their dirty work.
Shady Guy: Might be as my people and I keep to the shadows, but we've got nothin' to be ashamed of. It's simply better for business that we remain unseen.
Yugiri: And so you have developed fighting techniques suited to this purpose. I see. Know that the practitioners of my art, too, are denizens of shadow. 'Tis in stealth that our strength lies. There is much we might learn from one another, I think.
Shady Guy: Then what in the seven hells are we waitin' for? If you'd come with us, Yugerry of Do-whatsit, we can get acquainted in more private surrounds... Hah, that didn't come out right, did it!?
Yugiri: <Player>. I shall remain with these people for a time, that I might study their ways.
Yugiri: Though I am loath to be separated from my countrymen, I take solace in the knowledge that they are in the best of hands.
Yugiri: You have been a true friend to us Domans. No words would suffice to express my gratitude.
Yugiri: Ere long, I hope to begin imparting my martial knowledge to the people of Eorzea. When that time comes, it would be my honor to welcome you as a student.

She made it pretty clear that:

1) She seeks to teach the people of Eorzea the way of the Ninja after training and learning from the Rogue Guild.

and

2) There are other practitioners of her art in existence.

It's not a dead art, and she may very well delegate some of the Ninja training to her associates. It makes absolutely no sense at all for Yugiri to be around before the 2.2 storyline if you are a new player. The player character doesn't know of her existence or the fact that Ninja exist. You can make the argument for Rogue however, as it is an art that was refined in Limsa Lominsa.

[Dhex]

What if the phantom thief from the Hildebrand quest-line is actually the Rogue guildmaster and when he is caught and unmasked (in 2.4?) he will return to Limsa Lominsa and begin training people as penance for his crimes?


The laughs that affords are worth their weight in gold.

[Giantbane]

What if the phantom thief from the Hildebrand quest-line is actually the Rogue guildmaster and when he is caught and unmasked (in 2.4?) he will return to Limsa Lominsa and begin training people as penance for his crimes?


The laughs that affords are worth their weight in gold.

Rogues are actually very specifically NOT thieves. Their sneaky and subversive but they don't steal. They may have been thieves at some point in the past, but not any more. It's the very reason they're called rogues and not THF.

[Dhex]

Rogues are actually very specifically NOT thieves. Their sneaky and subversive but they don't steal. They may have been thieves at some point in the past, but not any more. It's the very reason they're called rogues and not THF.

Now who's splitting hairs?

[SDaemon]

DKs are a horrible support for your stance. Together with pandaren and monks and just the entire zones for BC and Wrath makes WoW a horrible example to try and argue consistency...

[Exstal]

It's not a dead art, and she may very well delegate some of the Ninja training to her associates. It makes absolutely no sense at all for Yugiri to be around before the 2.2 storyline if you are a new player. The player character doesn't know of her existence or the fact that Ninja exist. You can make the argument for Rogue however, as it is an art that was refined in Limsa Lominsa.

So one could play Rogue until 50, and only unlock Ninja after 2.2. That'd be a neat twist, don't you think?

[ZReport]

So one could play Rogue until 50, and only unlock Ninja after 2.2. That'd be a neat twist, don't you think?

It does make for a neat twist indeed, but I honestly don't believe it will affect many people in this manner outside of the new Chinese players and maybe some of the stragglers/people who dislike story/endgame.

[Giantbane]

Even if I'm misremembering something, and it WAS stated that all ninja but Yugiri were wiped out, there are plenty of ways around it - our instructor could be a rogue ninja long thought dead by his or her people who fled his or her homeland for whatever reason.

Not all of the jobs have teachers that show you new techniques. Those powers are usually granted by the Job Stone itself which stores the memory and spirit of past practitioners. You could even just *find* a ninja stone and run around doing ninja-y stuff to unlock the latent power in the stone. Don't even need a direct teacher.

[Cluebilly]

As far as I can recall you only fight alongside the scions...not a lot of times. Thancred in particular I believe is only with you during the early missions (about level 9 or so). And he isn't present during the Coerthas segment or the Scion rescue segment for obvious reasons by that point