Please stop making old content super easy

[Surian]

No, youre wrong. The list Nekodar gave IS a list of nerfed dungeons, not Echo Buff. All of above got mechanics and monsters changed/removed, not only Amador Keep.

There's a massive diffirence between "Truly nerfed" and ruined beyond repair (such as AK now) and having it's difficulty reduced slightly combined with having the echo buff.

There's nothing left standing of AK, it's nerfed beyond repair or worth.

The other things on the list got nothing but a slight adjustment in comparison, along with how we're already greatly overgeared for the content already.

[CGMidlander]

Dungeons that got nerfed:
Amdapor Keep
Pharos Sirius (deemed to be tuned too high originally)

Raids that got nerfed:
Binding Coil of Bahamut (I only recall ADS being nerfed for coil)

Trials that got nerfed:
Thornmarch HM (deemed to be tuned too high originally)

I'm not sure what the OP is referring to, but that's not a particularly long list.

Echo boost is something different from nerfing and only applies to trials and Coil.

They nerfed the damage the bees in Qarn do with Final Sting also.

[Kaethra]

They nerfed the damage the bees in Qarn do with Final Sting also.

You sure about that? I did this dungeon while leveling an Arcanist about 2 weeks ago and they were doing 1000 damage with that attack. I'm pretty sure thats how much it was when the game was released. Its just that tanks have enough HP to withstand that now. I could be wrong though. But 1000 is ringing a bell with me.

[Ooshima]

You sure about that? I did this dungeon while leveling an Arcanist about 2 weeks ago and they were doing 1000 damage with that attack. I'm pretty sure thats how much it was when the game was released. Its just that tanks have enough HP to withstand that now. I could be wrong though. But 1000 is ringing a bell with me.

Final Sting is supposed to be a OHKO move, regardless of how much HP you have. You fail to kill it fast enough, it will make you kiss the floor.

[Crimson-Falcon]

You sure about that? I did this dungeon while leveling an Arcanist about 2 weeks ago and they were doing 1000 damage with that attack. I'm pretty sure thats how much it was when the game was released. Its just that tanks have enough HP to withstand that now. I could be wrong though. But 1000 is ringing a bell with me.

final sting was 1 hit KO before

now it deal 70% of max HP

[Danbo05]

Old content becomes outdated by the time new content comes out. What's the point in making it a rigorous challenge when the reward won't be worth the effort, a year later? As for echo buffs, there's always the option of right-clicking and turning it off if you want to experience it as its meant to be, and just toss on minimum ilv gear for an extra challenge. Why do you think nobody does Ultima Hard Mode these days? Its by far more challenging than the first binding coil of Bahamut, but only nets you ilv80 accessories. Nerfing old content isn't always a bad thing. Especially when this game is meant for everyone, and not just hardcore players. It gives new players a chance to catch up.

But I'm not gonna lie, I want those flies back for Demon Wall.

[Garlyle]

But I'm not gonna lie, I want those flies back for Demon Wall.

I both do and do not.

The thing about the flies was that they were basically just a soft enrage on the boss. Either you could DPS the boss fast enough, or you couldn't - and were probably about to lose. I was never with a group that managed to successfully last on a "If the flies spawn we kill them" strategy. Even if they did, the groups I was with that beat Demon Wall were the ones that just had the tank grab them and kept trying to DPS the boss as fast as possible.

I had some people ragequit AK because of the gear on people - because people weren't in full Darklight yet. Darklight, a set of items that was ten levels above the rewards from the dungeon itself. In 2.0 that was sort of okay, though, because AK was the highest level grind. These days, AK is an introductory dungeon to the postgame, with rewards that are almost immediately irrelevant. Leaving the speed check on the boss is just a punishment to groups of newcomers who might actually need to complete it.

AK is a unique example though, along with Pharos Sirius. I don't believe any other dungeon is as merciless as those two were to of-level players, and in addition, with the fact that the Duty Finder minimum levels for entry are "whatever" and 48 respectively, those values had to be taken into consideration for design.

[Coatl]

Old content becomes outdated by the time new content comes out. What's the point in making it a rigorous challenge when the reward won't be worth the effort, a year later?

Because nerfing old content is bad for new players too. No new players want to get to 50, save Eorzea and then flop into some boring ass faceroll dungeon. They want something exciting to keep them going. What the hell's the point in trying so hard if things are too easy? And besides, even if old content DOES get faceroll easy (which they aren't..yet) the newbies would just run into a wall eventually anyway.

Oh, congrats on beating Turn 5 with 80% Echo buff with all of its mechanics taken away! Hope you look forward to Turn 6!

You see friends, nerfing old content will only help new and inexperienced players for that one or two dungeons. But the more and more you nerf things in older content, the higher and more unreachable the wall of inaccessibility will feel when facing content like coil 2.

[Iriadysa]

Everything in the game is reduced to a pile of no challenge to the exception of top tier content. Even new content is born as zero challenge if it's not meant for top tiers (see: new dungeons in last patch. While some entertaining mechanics appeared -as found in the last boss of Stone Vigil HM-, they are so tuned down it posed no real challenge beyond being able to press keys).

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!
Rambling incoming!

I know there's still people that think T5 is hard. That Titan is impossible. But here's the real problem; a problem that plagues MMOs and as the gaming industry grows and expands it starts plaguing even offline games.

Players have become costumers. Long gone are the days were being a player and buying a game meant you were accepting a challenge posed by its creators. It was an implicit contract: you gave them money to be entertained and challenged.

But players have different skill levels and all of them want to be entertained. Thus the concept of difficulty levels surfaced, different approaches of a game genre would be taken in an effort to allow as many people as possible to enjoy the game without losing on the challenge factor, etc. Fast forward to MMOs and now players are not just players but costumers that pay for a subscription for a service. It took some years for the new mentality to sink in, but with the explosion of MMOs after WoW, it has already become part of it: we are costumers and as costumers we demand to be entertained, pampered and pleased. Or we shall take our money elsewhere.

XIV is a game for the masses and as such, most of its content has to be made for them. It's a sad truth. The real shame here, however, is that all MMOs that have come out in the last years are trying to grab the WoW-carrot and all of them are aiming for a high amount of costumers.

Considering the ever increasing demand for multimedia quality from gamers (we don't accept anything but the best!) and the cost of fulfilling this, it may take years for the niche MMO to come back, if ever. But who knows; the recent indie game explosion gives a ray of hope to the gaming community.

[Garlyle]

XIV is a game for the masses and as such, most of its content has to be made for them. It's a sad truth. The real shame here, however, is that all MMOs that have come out in the last years are trying to grab the WoW-carrot and all of them are aiming for a high amount of costumers.

First off, Customers. Not Costumers. Although many players are indeed interested in vanity.

And second, this is the reality of a large portion of gaming in general, simply due to the side effects of continuously improving technology. AAA studios are often mocked for an unwillingness to innovate, but the reality is that in order to pay the costs of the games they make, they need customers - and as technology has improved, the cost of keeping games looking relevant (and therefore being able to catch people's eyes) has improved massively.

MMORPGs have it worse - there's a constant, perpetual cost associated with the existance of an MMORPG just to maintain servers, nevermind continue to update, nevermind continue to update at the level of quality and fidelity that is expected of a modern day game. Just getting people to notice your existance in the face of the giant that is World of Warcraft is hard, nevermind convincing players it's worth making the switch. I'm sure someone could make a super hardcore MMORPG in this day and age - but you'd better be ready for it to look like the original Everquest did, and a lot of players would not be. Because if the gameplay turns away a huge portion of the customer base, that's what they'd be able to afford - which in turn would push away a lot of even potential customers, even many that the game is being designed for. Right now, MMORPGs are in a tight spot - they either need to succeed massively or be ready to crash and burn. And massive success means the game has to be able to played by massive numbers of players.