Questions about PLD vs. WAR tanking

[Naraku_Diabolos]

So here it starts...

I was in a party this afternoon (I had Gladiator at the time, and right after the next Duty Roulette, I quested and unlocked Paladin) and I was being harassed by someone (who was then later reported by me to a GM) who was a Thaumaturge and kept saying, "You need to learn how to do your class right if you can't grab aggro from multiple enemies." I told him, "well stop getting hate from monsters because you are using Fire II AOE to hit more enemies instead of putting them to sleep. I can only grab hate once you stop AOE and Flash can't grab all of the monsters attention if you keep hitting them!" He then later called me racial slurs and whatnot and calling me a noob and all. Plus he refused to then DPS afterwards so he kept spamming Blizzard I instead of using just Fire I, and he was not even using Convert properly while playing.

So I talked with my FC about tanking as PLD vs. WAR, as I could only grab so much hate with Flash. I brought up the point where I'm not as a WAR (I was trying to get GLA to become a PLD this afternoon) so I can't use Overpower to spam and get aggro from multiple enemies in a quicker succession than Flash (Flash can only do so much). I mean, you can cross-class with WAR and use Provoke on it, but Overpower can't go onto any other class or job.

I mean, I read when ARR came out that PLD was geared towards tanking one main foe while WAR was for multiple enemies. My FC said that it is somewhat true, but I explained to the poor Thaumaturge in the party earlier that I can't grab more aggro. So after that fiasco of a party, I was then in the party that got my GLA to Lv30. I was talking with that party and they said I was not doing anything wrong tanking, so I wonder if it was just that Thaumaturge in the previous party.

I mean, now all I have left to unlock is BLM, and I know how to do that rotations between Astral Fire and Umbral Ice with converting to regain lost MP. I was doing more damage just using Fire I on monsters rather than relying on Fire II's AOE, but that's a different story :P

So the question is... Do Paladins work best tanking one enemy at a time while Warriors are better with multiple enemies?

[Warrlordd]

WAR's generate more aggro on multiple targets. But you should still be able to tank aoe fine as a PLD. The BLM isn't wrong for using fire II, but he's wrong in not waiting for a bit of aggro esp at lower levels. You're going to have huge difference between WAR/PLD until you hit lvl 40 on your paladin. Hang in there.

[Anova]

PLD are able to grab quite a few enemies at once with flash. The main problem is that PLD typically have the greatest difficulty tanking between lv.30 and lv.40 as DPS start getting their main damage mechanics at those levels but PLD do not gain shield oath until lv.40 (WAR gain defiance at lv.30 and their stormseye combo shortly after).

It becomes easier to maintain enmity with flash once you have shield oath, and circle of scorn paired with flash at lv.50 makes speedruns possible. The DPS was being douchey, although I think you could have compensated for him by using a 'rage of halone' combo to generate as much enmity as possible to keep most of the adds off the blackmage. It's not ideal, but the blackmage won't die from 1 mob that's being focus-fired. Once you have the group under control, you can always use provoke and a combo'd halone to grab the add attacking him if it's still alive.

[Pyreflye]

Both classes are able to hold AoE thread, though, Warriors definitely do have it easier.

You will run into douchey players like that. My rule is "If you want threat, you can have it".
So, if some overeager DPS is AoEing before I even have the change to establish base aggro on all the mobs, then they can keep the aggro until either the mob dies, or they die.

I'll ask them nicely to refrain from AoEing until I have aggro, if they listen to me, great!
If not, too bad for them. I'm not going to go out of my way to save them from it.

[chidarake]

I just started levelling war, currently level 32, and yeah war's overpower is mental easy to get that group threat up quick however I wouldn't say its better than flash for controlling hate whilst dps aoe's.

I say this with a lot of experience tanking as pld behind me against all sorts of combo's in dps. especially two well geared blm doing full fire 2 and double / triple flare rotations.

if you know there going to aoe its much easier to tank against it and so really you should just assume that they are going too and especially if you see that first fire 2 you should start flashing more.

as with anything in this game regarding class's you just have to learn what to do in certain situations and 1-2 flashes is not going to hold hate against full aoe attacks from dps.

as far as the blm goes he was being an idiot and it would of been nice to know if he had even tanked anything to offer up advice in the first place. but even if you were new to tanking then he should of been more constructive rather than just being the way he was.

also a note on fire 1 to fire 2.. yes fire 1 does more single target damage but fire 2 does more damage overall the enemies assuming it hits all. so yes if you want a single target burned down then you could mark it so the dps know but otherwise a good dps would use aoe spells, although I find fire 2 so weak personally in low level dungeons that it does not really speed things up. ( I main blm and 2nd pld)

[Anienai]

He can't spam Fire II if he is dead.

[Warrlordd]

also a note on fire 1 to fire 2.. yes fire 1 does more single target damage but fire 2 does more damage overall the enemies assuming it hits all. so yes if you want a single target burned down then you could mark it so the dps know but otherwise a good dps would use aoe spells, although I find fire 2 so weak personally in low level dungeons that it does not really speed things up. ( I main blm and 2nd pld)

That would depend on how much you pull. I find healers are typically up to the challenge of 2 groups at a time, maybe 3 as u get higher lvl dungeons

[Naraku_Diabolos]

I could not use my Rage of Halone in Halatali, though. That's where the party was at. I was actually doing better as GLA when I was in Tam-Tara normal with controlling the hate with the BLM in the party then.

And I was pulling correctly and all in the party, so I know I was doing my part.

[chidarake]

He can't spam Fire II if he is dead.

I think the point of the aoe though is that the tank has the group and so the dps shouldn't get attacked. but yes if they start to early and pull, it would be very hard for them to kill anything if they are dead.

That would depend on how much you pull. I find healers are typically up to the challenge of 2 groups at a time, maybe 3 as u get higher lvl dungeons

how much you can pull and hold as a tank is very dependant on healer skill and overall level as well as your own ability and also which dungeon your running. personally I never do larger pulls in low level dungeons because in general it wont work out how you planned.

[Anova]

I could not use my Rage of Halone in Halatali, though.

Ah sorry, that does change the situation somewhat. I honestly can't imagine what you might have done differently then. Hatalati is one of those dungeons with a strong DPS mechanic (changing targets and focus-targeting priority targets), so It's really difficult to say if your dps was trying to speedrun at lv.20 (not really possible with the levelsync) or was just confused.