Some enmity questions...

[Reogrym]

Just been wondering this for quite some time now. Just have a couple of questions, really.

Say that a healer overheals mid-fight. Does enmity, as a value on the tank, get decreased when the healer overheals? Or is the healer just catching up in aggro when he/she overheals? Buddy of mine was wondering this in ST, when he wasn't able to keep aggro against a tank in the same gear as him, blaming Regen and Medica 2 for him being unable to maintain aggro, as it was supposedly the only variable different.

(...which just doesn't seem right to me, lol.)

[warren-ragnarok]

according to testing done, enmity does not decay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG8cmNLhUt8

the real question about keeping up with hate against a tank in same gear, was his tank pld and the other tank warrior? there is a noticeable difference right now, showing wars can pull hate off of plds, but wars also do strike harder

as for a healer taking hate off of a tank by spamming heals, that healer needs to learn to heal or people need to learn how to avoid unnecessary damage, and yes, overhealing DOES still give enimty

[Reogrym]

They were both Paladins, but yeah. I worded the second part incorrectly. It wasn't healer taking aggro off the tanks, exactly. It was more about... when the healer gains enmity, does the tank (in the party) lose enmity, or build enmity slower? Or would it be a problem with his aggro combo, which is...

FoF > Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Provoke > Rage of Halone (after the other tank takes aggro). Otherwise it's just Fast Blade, Savage Blade, Rage of Halone, with FoF now and then.

His observation to me was this:

I was unable to take aggro off the other tank with that combo. I had aggro for a split second, but I lost it right away. The only variable that was different was that I had a Regen on me.

If that makes it a bit more clear as to what's going on, hopefully. What other variables could there be?

[Dotsusama]

Individual enmity has no outside factors unless the boss has either no enmity table (like the Stone Vigil HM final boss, among others), or has an enmity reset.

Meaning that the enmity generated by any one player is an individual number that continues to build and only an ability like Shroud of Saints that specifically lowers their own enmity affects it. Two tanks performing the same combinations under the same circumstances (same buffs, same stance, same weapons) should generate the same enmity minus some variation in damage, no matter who is being healed more, since healing contributes to the healer's enmity and not the tank.

Also, self-heals like Blood for Blood or Inner Beast heals (for Warrior) do not generate enmity at all, IIRC. A Regen would count for the WHM, not the tank.

If you have trouble with tank swaps, what the other tank needs to do is just... stop everything. Since Provoke is just "top threat target's enmity +1" and nothing more, even a good auto-attack crit, or activating a buff can draw the threat back. It *shouldn't* if you follow with a strong finisher like Rage of Halone, but lately I have also seen enmity take a good half second or so to "kick in" and targets change, so it's best to be careful.

[Krindor]

No the healer doesn't lower anyone's enmity, the tank is just blaming it on something other than his skills, what could've been different is the use of offensive cooldowns like FoF and was the tank in identical gear? Same weapon and accessories? The other tank might've had str ACCs instead increasing his enmity.

If I'm not wrong enmity is equal to damage dealt, Shield Oath multiplies enmity by 2, Savage blade by 3, and RoH by 5 so if the other tank had a higher str and RoH right after him he would get aggro back.

@Dotsusama, I believe you mean Bloodbath and not BfB

[Dotsusama]

@Dotsusama, I believe you mean Bloodbath and not BfB

YOU KNOW WHAT -- I make that mistake an embarrassing number of times. I've been loathe to level up LNC for my BRD so I can finally have that cross-class, which is why, haha. You are correct though!

[Reogrym]

Thanks for the responses!

[Rbstr]

It might be that the other tank had points in strength instead of vitality?

But yeah, healing just gives enmity to the person that used the spell, nothing else.

[ksufoley]

Well considering it was ST and there is only one tank per party then there are quite a few variables. Healing doesn't affect enmity on the tanks unless one is at the top of the table and a tank provokes. Say the enmity on the whole alliance is on tank A and heal B would overheal and grab enmity (cure 3's do this particularly well) then tank B provokes, grabbing aggro to save his healer for over healing (stupid healer) it's harder to grab aggro back even with provoke. But at that point the variables set in. If team B has a SCH that pops selenes skill speed tank can pop more enmity combos than tank A increasing his enmity above tank B. Not sure if bards foe increases PLD aoe or silence power but if it does then boom higher enmity. Might not be a while lot compared to RoH rotation but any bit helps