Combat Gameplay - Ninja

[Radacci]

the acn was given mostly for the player from the V1 to have something to do, mostly because we had the same class for ages and some had all the class to 50.
they will not loose time and reduce the lore to nothing simply for please you. it's easier to put it tie to the story quest.

other point, you simply ask for a whole retcon of the story so far. people meeting yugiri before 2.1? she just did arrive from doma that was in war, how can she be in doma and eorzea at the same time? seriously, you don't care for the lore, we have get it. sadly that not the case of SE, they will not give you acces to the class without advance into the story.

finally, it's greatly possible that the rogue class will be something create by the meeting of yugiri and the thief guild of limsa... the dojo will probably where you will have your class quest. it's said by Yugiri that she will learn the way of the thief guild and make her dojo for teach adventurer... how can you not understand the tie with our own rogue class.
class are not given freely from now, i think you need to get over it and understand it. for the 2.0 they will only add ninja, for the 3.0 we know 2 more class will come and i will not be surprise to see for the 3.x series a few class pop, this is them way to add class.

you're to limiting in your thinking...
There's plenty of reasons why you could meet Yugiri. Although it's not probable, you could travel to an instanced location, in Doma, and meet her.
You could meet Yugiri after she comes to Eorzea, but before appearing in main story.
Or...you don't really need her as a teacher at all...actually she's not teacher really...you get all the ninja skills through job stone, you're just doing quests that unlock those powers. It doesn't matter who gives the quests.
Anyone in the Rogue guild, can be your class teacher. I don't see why Yugiri would be Rogue trainer, when she just arrived, as you said yourself.
Although i'm not really a fan of ppl saying *It's the devs, they can do whatever they want* in this case, i'll go with that If they want to make Rog/Nin available from the beginning...they will. And i don't see any reason why they wouldn't.
And if they do, i'm quite sure they'll do it in a way, that makes sense, without ruining the lore.

Having played FFXI for 8 years, and having every new job available to me as soon as they were released (by just doing a small quest, though the ToAU quests for COR and such was a lil annoying), I don't see SE making ROG and NIN gated by anything other than a quest or two. Some people may actually buy the game new in order to play NIN, and thinking that SE will gate it to people who have to be lvl 50, beaten King Mog, and also beaten Leviathan HM is very, very unlikely. So many people will want to play these new classes that it makes no sense from a PR perspective to lock them to people who are already at max level and have beaten the main story quest up through 2.2. Think of how many disgruntled and upset new players (and old) there would be. Seeing as how new player friendly Yoshi is, I highly doubt this would happen - lore or not.

yah, but you know...this isn't wow where everything is handed to you...you gotta werk for that NIN!
(even though ilv 110 gear is handed to ppl almost for free)

[MirielleLavandre]

Hehe - like I said, I played FFXI for 8 years since it launched in NA. The grind there was so much more than any kind of grind that could exist in this game. Even atma farming pales in comparison to just plain leveling in FFXI (needing a full party to pretty much do anything pre-Abyssea). Even with Abyssea getting my AF3 took forever due to the boss spawns and number of times needed to be killed, and adding getting all the 'needed' atmas via Abyssea bosses....ugh. I was mainly merely pointing out that it makes no sense to make anyone have to finish the main story far past Praetorium (or even be lvl 50) just to play the newly released class/job. From a PR perspective that would be incredibly foolish.

[silentwindfr]

it's not foolish it's normal, the dojo will not appear before the 2.4, then you can't be this class before this... that like this.
it will give new player something to do and look for. and i'm sorry but get 50 and do all the quest to the 2.3 take less of one week... then please stop to make it look like it's tedious.

it's not different than people saying it's not normal to need to be 50 for get the option to glamour...
like said before the game don't stop with 1 class leveled...

[MirielleLavandre]

Getting 50 and beating all of 2.3 takes far longer than a week unless you have totally nothing else to do. Imagine what it is like for a new player and try saying that to them (unless they are a kid and actually don't have a family to take care of or such). It IS foolish to gate something they are building so much hype about, like a new class/job, to people who have already 'beat' the game. Did you ever play FFXI? No job was ever released there that wasn't available to people who weren't yet max level - it would upset the player base too much.

[Radacci]

Hehe - like I said, I played FFXI for 8 years since it launched in NA. The grind there was so much more than any kind of grind that could exist in this game. Even atma farming pales in comparison to just plain leveling in FFXI (needing a full party to pretty much do anything pre-Abyssea). Even with Abyssea getting my AF3 took forever due to the boss spawns and number of times needed to be killed, and adding getting all the 'needed' atmas via Abyssea bosses....ugh. I was mainly merely pointing out that it makes no sense to make anyone have to finish the main story far past Praetorium (or even be lvl 50) just to play the newly released class/job. From a PR perspective that would be incredibly foolish.

yah, that's what i was saying too. ppl would go bananas if they couldn't be rog/nin, from the beginning.
And they are keeping the game simplified, to make it accessible to many ppl. Gating Nin behind all those quests, wouldn't be accessibility.

[Vaer]

it's not foolish it's normal, the dojo will not appear before the 2.4, then you can't be this class before this... that like this.
it will give new player something to do and look for. and i'm sorry but get 50 and do all the quest to the 2.3 take less of one week... then please stop to make it look like it's tedious.

I really doubt they are going to lock it out since they are probably assuming a lot of new players are going to start playing just to play this class.

Not only would it be stupid from a business standpoint, it's a terrible design decision to make someone play the entire game on a class they might not want to play just to unlock a class they actually want to play even if it takes a week. I mean this would make it the only class that wouldn't have access to storyline quests to level.

Maybe they will lock it out, but it would be a boneheaded decision if there ever was one.

[xnonamex]

The class looks pretty fun. Will be a nightmare to lvl in dungeons though. most prob FC lvling alliances will be needed

That said i hope that in real game the animations and gameplay will be smooth. Because on paper a lot of classes look really cool. but we all know what animation problems we actually have in real life. They tried it there on an empty wold against one mob. In real life the stuff will be different + taking delay into account.

[Kisshu]

Not only would it be stupid from a business standpoint, it's a terrible design decision to make someone play the entire game on a class they might not want to play just to unlock a class they actually want to play even if it takes a week. I mean this would make it the only class that wouldn't have access to storyline quests to level.

There are right now 303 main scenario quests(that's including both Limsa/Gridania/Uldah first quests), even if 2.2 is around the 150 mark, that's a lot of playtime just to unlock that one class/job, which you then have to level.
I know FFXI had a level requirement to unlock any job besides the first 6 jobs. However, the subjob system in FFXI meant that a PLD would start as a WAR till 30, unlock PLD and use the WAR as subjob, thus not wasting time.

[Stridentzephon]

They already said they will make all classes obtainable for 2.4 and on without requiring some kinda of endgame grind. They already said they will be making it easier for new player that will be joining in 3.0 in last 3 interviews. I highly suspend it will just be a level 30 quest with a few jobs required to be leveled/

[silentwindfr]

endgame grind, too long, too boring... you do realize that the new player need to learn the game mechanic in a way or another, or when they will be 50... well they will lack the knowledge of them own class for be able to face harder content, right?

from what we have seen from the video, you need to enter yourself each sign for the ninjustsu spell, meaning you don't simply push a button and paf the spell come out, you need to memorize the right order for get the spell come out, while being a melee class that will need to avoid all the shit coming to him. it seems to rely too on position (sadly) that a lot of stuff to learn...
but let's put that a side, even if the class will be available directly without... do the story that explain how we do get acces to it. they will still need to level the other class for get the jobs recquirement for the ninja or maybe even get the cross skill...

all that said that whatever you say, you will need to level up another class, more important, if you want to have acces to all, you need to do the story quest... it's not a grind, it can be boring if you don't really care for the story, and it's far to be difficult.
it's not different of the people crying because they had to get a level 50 for get the glamour available. the game ask to have a class 50. and with the lore as it is... give the rogue like it was normal it's a nonsense!

we dunno how they will handle the transition between the 2.x to 3.x quest line, and personally i will be find this sad if they don't have to do it. but that them choice for later... but right now, get the rogue without at least the 2.2 done... it's stupid and simply spiting at the face of the people writing the story and saying: "we don't care we only want to have our fun... the story is not needed!"

but anyway, it's them choice, we will see. however, i seriously hope, they will stop to care soo much for the new player, the new player experience it's already far too short for what it's needed later, they don't have the time to learn the basic of the game. i have seen a lot of level 50 that don't even know the most simple cycle of them class. the 1-50 it's extremely fast and get the story done now it's more simpler than before.