Chocobo Dye Experimentation

[Kiara]

Hi Jayne and all,

Thanks for the hard work and fascinating experiments to isolate the factors for Chocobo Dyeing.

I wanted to request:

When you start getting ideal Color Pathways / Recipes, can you edit your Original Post to summarize the Results and real Color Combinations?

I suspect that's what many forum goers really want to know (if they can't go through all the experiments and data).

Thanks!

[Jayne422]

Hi Jayne and all,

Thanks for the hard work and fascinating experiments to isolate the factors for Chocobo Dyeing.

I wanted to request:

When you start getting ideal Color Pathways / Recipes, can you edit your Original Post to summarize the Results and real Color Combinations?

I suspect that's what many forum goers really want to know (if they can't go through all the experiments and data).

Thanks!

Thanks for the support Kiara.

I am indeed planning to update the original post at some point today and try to go through and make sure all the new material added to the thread since the last update is included in the OP. I've got more links to various sources of information and such to add as well. I'm also in the process of updating my Google Doc, but I'm doing the updates on a private copy and will copy/paste them when I'm ready to put them up on the public document. The updates to the OP have been pretty slow since I've been busy both in and out of game this week, I apologize for that. So please bear with me a little longer and I'll update the OP as soon as possible!

[Boomerz]

Hello, I figured I'd take my stab at creating a google doc to assist others in predicting the color their chocobo will turn out. It is very very basic and not fancy but I believe can be utilized to predict chocobo colors with some accuracy. When you click the document, enter the R,G, and B of your current chocobo color and how many fruit you plan on feeding your chocobo. The link is:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1841660782

The form works by calculating distances between points in 3 dimensional space with minimums and maximums set at 0 and 255, respectively. I treat RED, GREEN, and BLUE as x, y, and z coordinates. As we feed our chocobo different fruits, our position moves around in the space. Every dye that the chocobo can be dyed has a set point in the 3d space, set by the red, green, and blue combination of each dye. As we move, the spreadsheet calculates the distance to the CLOSEST dye.


As we know, feeding each fruit to the chocobo increases/decreases the R, G, and B of your current chocobo color. For this spreadsheet, I use an increase/decrease value of 4. Yes, I know, we don't know the exact science of how a fruit being fed to a chocobo effects the R, G, B, but until we know exactly how SE calculates the effect of each fruit during feeding, this is my estimate.
DISCLAIMERS:

I am basing my calculations on just some assumptions I've read mostly on this forum thread.

The spreadsheet does NOT work well with large numbers of fruit. It does however work well in calculating how, for example, 7 apples will affect your chocobo. Feel free to mess around with the fruit numbers with other peoples experiences to determine its accuracy (or inaccuracy) I use it for when my chocobo says he is growing feathers. I'll enter my current color in up top and then the fruit I entered to help me guess what the result will be. Vice versa, it can be used to estimate if feeding 10 fruit to your chocobo will give you the result you're hoping for.

There is a lot of ironing out to do with the spreadsheet. However, when used in correlation with other spreadsheets created by the members of this forum, it can be useful.

Please feel free to leave comments on the spreadsheet, thank you.

[Snootles]

-snip-Snow White. I just fed my bird 3 berries, got the feathers message, and inexplicably looped back to Sylph Green.

Ah ha! Thanks, I've been curious about what happens when you feed different fruit after Snow White!

As far as I'm concerned, Blood Red IS the Apple Cap. There is no high lvl red color from just Apples.

That's been the general consesus for a few days now me thinks?

If I'm still missing something, please let me know here in the thread.

I don't see my spreadsheet linked ^^

-snip- the spreadsheet calculates the distance to the CLOSEST dye.

So far from what I can see, the colours are presets with RNG involved. Yes, these presets seem to be based on RGB but it's not exact -at all-.

[Ravenloft]

That's been the general consesus for a few days now me thinks?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2391764

^ That would be the reason I retested the apple cap.

[Snootles]

[url]
That would be the reason I retested the apple cap.

They got trolled .-.

I am also trying for soot black on an alt's bird. Following the handy dandy chart that was recently updated, I decided to take the apple > berry path towards kobold brown. Feeding only until I got the first feather proc and then letting it sit.

I can confirm the path up to Rolanberry Red, But here's where something went tilt.
I went with a berry feeding again. Expected result was Midnight Blue (yay!) or Royal Blue (not so yay). Instead I got Regal Purple.
I am using a pineapple now to try and get Rolanberry Red back, even though this path was completely unlisted.

Would you please share this through my sheet? Alinah also checks it for the colour chart =D

[Jayne422]

I don't see my spreadsheet linked ^^

I linked to your thread and included a note in the description that you had a spreadsheet up there. I'm trying to make sure that I don't multi-link to things so that people don't get confused. If you'd like a link to both your thread and spreadsheet up though, I can do that.

[AttacKat]

I linked to your thread and included a note in the description that you had a spreadsheet up there. I'm trying to make sure that I don't multi-link to things so that people don't get confused. If you'd like a link to both your thread and spreadsheet up though, I can do that.

Please also revised the info of my spreadsheet, ver 2 is now refined to increment of 8s, not 16, to eliminate duplicate values.

To me, that is the definition of KISS. That linear theory, to me, is super complicated!

There is only ONE theory, SE's programming logic.

All the attempts here is just trying to figure out SE's programming logic, once we decode that, we have a clear path to how the colors are chosen.

[Tyrfina]

The form works by calculating distances between points in 3 dimensional space with minimums and maximums set at 0 and 255, respectively. I treat RED, GREEN, and BLUE as x, y, and z coordinates. ... As we move, the spreadsheet calculates the distance to the CLOSEST dye.

That's awesome. I actually contemplated what the colors/fruits system would look like in a 3 dimensional cartesian coordinate system, but i didn't have the time yet to examine the observational data to validate the hypothesis. What kind of accuracy are you getting?

So far from what I can see, the colours are presets with RNG involved. Yes, these presets seem to be based on RGB but it's not exact -at all-.

While I can't tell you if Boomerz's approach is correct, I can say that it is a step in the right direction. From a programmer's perspective (me): while the spreadsheets and charts might be useful for most people to see and predict how they go from one color to another, it would make almost no sense to write code which WORKED in this fashion. It would be obscure, and frankly a coding clusterf***. While it is easier to SEE it as walking a color tree, there is a SYSTEM in place. A mathematical formula which determines what color you arrive at, we just haven't figured it out yet. But this theory seems extremely promising.

[Boomerz]

While I can't tell you if Boomerz's approach is correct, I can say that it is a step in the right direction. From a programmer's perspective (me): while the spreadsheets and charts might be useful for most people to see and predict how they go from one color to another, it would make almost no sense to write code which WORKED in this fashion. It would be obscure, and frankly a coding clusterf***. While it is easier to SEE it as walking a color tree, there is a SYSTEM in place. A mathematical formula which determines what color you arrive at, we just haven't figured it out yet. But this theory seems extremely promising.

I completely agree that there has to be a mathematical formula in place that determines the resulting color of a chocobo. The spreadsheet I made does pretty well at predicting several chocobo colors, especially ones that occur from the Desert Yellow color. I've used it to hop around to a few colors I wanted to as well. However, there are several accounts from people that I cannot duplicate. Some questions I'm really trying the answer to are:


How does each fruit affect the R,G, and B of the chocobo?

I'm currently under the impression that the fruits have the following effects:
Xelphatol Apple: R(+) | G(-) | B(-)
Doman Plum: R(-) | G(+) | B(+)
Mamook Pear: R(-) | G(+) | B(-)
Valfruit: R(+) | G(-) | B(+)
O'Ghomoro Berry: R(-) | G(-) | B(+)
Cieldales Pineapple:R(+) | G(+) | B(-)

I'm not 100% confident on these effects. Furthermore, I think we can agree that when you feed your chocobo, the effect from a single fruit has some RNG involved. For example, I believe when you feed your chocobo an apple, the result is something like R(+4), G(-2), B(-5). This RNG must be in place because of all the account of people getting such variable results from feeding just berries to their chocobo from Desert Yellow. However, this brings me to my next question.

Based on the current R,G,B value, how does SE determine what dye your chocobo should be?

I believed I had some good hypothesis, but there is one result I just simply cannot duplicate. There are multiple account of people feeding an enormous amount of apples to their chocobo and the result is always Blood Red. Using the effects on R,B,G from the fruits above, a large supply of apples will always have the same result, that is (255/0/0).

I cannot mathematically determine how this R,B,G (255/0/0) combination chooses the dye Blood Red. I've tried calculating minimum distances to the points in a 3D cartisian system. I've tried summing the absolute value of the differences between the R,B,G values of every dye. No matter what I try, I cannot get Blood Red to be the foremost dye that should be chosen for an ungodly amount of apples.

The last question I'm trying to find the answer for, just out of curiousity is...

Does stable condition affect the potency of the fruits fed to the chocobo?

For example, does a poor condition stable cause fruits to have less effect on your chocobo, and vice versa with good conditions?

Either way, there must be some mathematical way to determine how fruit will change our chocobo colors ... right?