Is dying reason to be votekicked ?

[AmnesiaHaze]

iv have ran a syrcon tower and died multiple times because even after getting rezzed i didnt get any heal and died almost instantly multiple times , then the whole ally wiped but i got kicked afterwards , so is this a valid reason to get kicked in this game?

[Brightshadow]

If your holding back the party from completing the dungeon I think its valid. For example a tank or healer that can't properly do their role preventing the whole group from progressing.

[Zyrusticae]

The only valid reasons for being kicked are:
- Being AFK for extended periods of time
- Being offline for extended periods of time
- Harassment of your fellow party members
- Cheating through third party tools or hacks (exploits too, but I don't think there are any left in the game)

Everything else is abuse of the vote dismissal feature. You can actually have disciplinary action taken if you can give the GMs enough information (i.e. when this occurred, who was in your party at the time, and so on). I, myself, was a victim of vote dismiss abuse recently when someone kicked me for apparently dealing too much damage (and thus taking aggro from the tank). It happens.

[Bixby]

The only valid reasons for being kicked are:
- Being AFK for extended periods of time
- Being offline for extended periods of time
- Harassment of your fellow party members
- Cheating through third party tools or hacks (exploits too, but I don't think there are any left in the game)

Nope.

However, there is one topic in this thread that seems to be an underlying point of contention: reasons for dismissal that are not strictly "AFK", "Offline", "Harassment", or "Cheating". I would like to address this.

The response from the GM touched on this, although it was missed due to the focus on the first part of that sentence. The reasons for dismissal are not all encompassing, which means that there may be valid reasons for dismissal outside of those four examples. Good examples of this that have been provided in this thread are the refusal to fulfill one's job function. Because of this, it is possible that the reasons provided for dismissal may be found to be accurate if they are used against you. As well, the feelings one may have about the reasons may differ from the feelings of those who voted to dismiss. For example, cultural differences in language may have one person using language they find fairly benign while another person takes great offense to it.

Because of these subjective discrepancies, the final decision on if a violation of the use of the vote dismiss feature is left to a GM after an investigation. In general, abuse of the vote dismiss feature is considered to be a grief tactics violation, which falls under section 3.2 in the Final Fantasy XIV User Agreement. However, it is only after a GM investigation that it can be determined to be a violation of the rules. If you feel that the vote dismiss feature has been abused, please do report it to the GMs through the Help Desk in game, and we will investigate.

LGM Enkrateia

There are more responses in that thread from Enkrateia, worth a read.

Here's another good one:

There is not much ambiguity to that sentence. If a person is intentionally acting in a manner that is detrimental to the completion of the duty, then the use of the vote dismiss feature is unlikely to be a violation.

Can you (legitimately) be kicked for repeatedly dying? Depends on the circumstances. Will the people who kicked you be punished if you report them? Depends on the GM's interpretation of events.

[Aegis]

Poor performance (through DF, at least) is not a reason to be kicked. That is abuse of the system.

There can be a grey area between poor performance and deliberately trolling, but if your side of the argument is fair and relatively unbiased you weren't anywhere near the grey area. This kind of trolling would be not using an enmity generation skills as a tank or not healing as a healer at all at a point where you would be expected to be doing this (being generous I would say from Halatali onwards).

If the party genuinely believed you were underperforming on purpose then they would be right to kick you. If you raised a complaint it would be up to a GM's investigation to decide who was in the right, which is, by necessity, a very fallible process.

Edit: What Bixby said.

[Zyrusticae]

I should note, then, that intentionally trolling the party by working against them very easily falls under the "Harassment" category.

The problem is when players use that against players who are trying their best and just aren't doing what they think they should be doing, which is unambiguous abuse of the system.

[Bixby]

I should note, then, that intentionally trolling the party by working against them very easily falls under the "Harassment" category.

I think part of the GM's point, from the rest of the posts in that thread, and it's sort of in line with their posts in the big thread about resetting hunts, is that you don't have to be intentionally trolling. If what you're doing is intentional, as in, I am pushing these buttons on purpose and not by accident, and its effect is to hold the party back, it can be a legitimate kick even if you're honestly not out to ruin anyone's day. It's not harassment if you just suck really bad at your job, but it can still be a valid reason for a kick if it's holding the others back.

In this specific case, Harassment would be the closest fit if the rest of the party honestly thought OP was just trolling, but Enkrateia is basically saying you don't need to make your reasoning fit into one of those four categories anyway.

Edit: I don't mean this to be argumentative, btw. Just further clarifying what I was saying.

[SarcasmMisser]

Seen lots of people vote kicked for being bad and never seen punishment for it, seems like a fine reason.

[Vaer]

Are you sure they didn't just kick you so they could leave themselves and you got chosen randomly?

[Krr]

I do not see any situation outlined where poor performance with a good will effort to cooperate constitute a legitimate reason to kick a player, as this behavior is not disruptive. Playing uncooperatively can constitute harassment or disruption. I have not seen any interpretation of the rules where playing poorly on its own constitutes a valid reason. A lot of emphasis is made on the phrase 'refusal', not 'inability'. In this case, the onus would be on fellow party members to make a good-faith effort to educate the problematic player on what they can do to help the party. That said, I am not a GM and this is merely my interpretation of what was written.

In any circumstance where you feel you have suffered vote dismiss abuse even if you are unsure, make a ticket using the in-game support menu. The GM will likely request the server or World of the player(s) who initiated the abusive dismissal, which you can look up on the Lodestone: na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/

The Vote Abandon function exists for a party to leave an instance without needing to vote dismiss another member, so I don't find the possibility that they 'just wanted to leave without a penalty' to be very amenable.