i like how almost every single person seems to think that the people who havent had a T5 down are just not putting any effort into it. for a lot of people, thats not true on NA servers. PF isnt used for practice, its used for clears and kills, no exceptions. DF is used for practice, but if no one ever wants to stay in the instance past 1 wipe, and sometimes even immediately disbands, there is no place to practice, so no one is ever able to learn the fight. youve either finished it, or you have almost no hope of getting past it. a lot of the people on jenova came from other worlds as alts, and they can do just fine, plenty of server firsts there, but the people that actually started here, you have to have a pretty generous and laid back FC, or be very lucky