How about... an easy mode Coil?

[Lyrinn]

Even with 20% echo buff, T5 is not easy for the vast majority of people.

I wonder, does that imply T5 is difficult for the average player, or is the average player really that bad? It's true echo doesn't help with one-shot mechanics like divebombs (into wall) and twisters, but it's also pathetic how many people don't know how to play their classes.

It's not an issue of elitism; many people who are "stuck" literally do not know how to play their classes. WHMs who spam Cure II through Infirmity and run out of mana before conflag phase ends, SCHs who never Adloquium or Lustrate and think Eos can do everything for them, DPS who hit under 150 DPS (calculated with an abacus and a stopwatch obviously), tanks who can't hold hate - it's a total mess.

[Ashkendor]

I wonder, does that imply T5 is difficult for the average player, or is the average player really that bad? It's true echo doesn't help with one-shot mechanics like divebombs (into wall) and twisters, but it's also pathetic how many people don't know how to play their classes.

I really don't know how to answer that. I guess it's kind of academic anyway. I just know that I've done PF's for T5 many many times and I've only cleared the damn thing once. Usually we end up with at least one person that swears they know what they're doing only to wipe us repeatedly at the first divebomb. I'm i107 PLD with 10k+ hps in T5 so it's not like I die easily, yet I've had so many healers that can't keep me standing. Maybe I just have really terrible luck with pugs. It makes me hate PF almost as much as I hate DF.