What is a Bard?

[Maero]

Nobody said anything about always. But I see bards go through entire instances/dungeons without singing once. That's wrong.

Not really, it is group dependant, some healers don't ever require mp same as tanks and such, and dps should learn how to control so that they do not run out of tp.
Singing is there if needed, some groups healers actually prefer Bard to strictly dps

[RinchanNau]

Not really, it is group dependant, some healers don't ever require mp same as tanks and such, and dps should learn how to control so that they do not run out of tp.
Singing is there if needed, some groups healers actually prefer Bard to strictly dps

Can still put up foe's for healer DPS even in a 4 man party w/ no caster DPS. And swiftsong between pulls.

[Kaze3434]

Not really, it is group dependant, some healers don't ever require mp same as tanks and such, and dps should learn how to control so that they do not run out of tp.

tp control is absolutely needed, but in a fight that has near 100% up time on a boss, tp will become low on everyone.(tanks included, or rather, even more so because they have no way to get a massive amount back fast) from my t8 pugs, i have been praised for knowing when people needed tp. mp was almost never needed unless someone died. tho this is just one instance.

[Maero]

No need to BOLD what you want to point out jez, lol
I agree with your point in that sense, my point is more about people that wine that Bard's not singing even for simple raids, like really if Bard did not have songs the rest of the dps would have to make due with tp management just as Bard does. While yes my main class now is more so blm i feel Bard always gets the short straw

[DishSoap]

A miserable little pile of music!

[Cspr_Answrth]

Aside from Foe Req. where it is applicable, I rarely use songs except for short spurts inside of coil.
I use it for about 15 seconds in T8 for two occasions, and I use it in T9 shortly before P3 starts to top off the healers to push through to P4.

That's pretty much it.

[FriendlyUncle]

Why does everyone get so butt hurt that Bard doesn't get a damage LB. How many individual people are using LB in any given Duty? Once! Maybe TWICE. So congrats, we give you damage LB and you can fight with all of the other ST LB'ers out there to see who can push their button before all the others once hitting 3 bars.

DRG gets a pierce debuff, which also affects a Bards damage directly. If you want to look at another DPS classes's quested skills BLM is a good example. Apoc - Magic resistance for a party member. Manawall - Defensive ability to negate melee damage. Archer also gets two native damage increases Raging Strikes and Hawk's Eye(Maybe be incorrect). Bard gets the advantage of having great support skills, extreme mobility and up-time in exchange for having slightly lower sheet damage compared to classes like DRG/MNK/BLM who have to shift around interrupting their combos or breaking casts to survive where BRD can continue shooting away while moving out of dangerous areas or switching targets.

BRD is a DPS. It just has different advantages and trade offs than other DPS classes. A DPS LB will not really help or hinder this class with the exception of getting unlucky with 2 Bards in a 4-man instance. Honestly, Bard has something that makes it unique and desired in certain content and situations. I do not understand why some Bards are so upset that they have songs over a damage LB, especially when you are generally only asked to play the ones with damage reduction components in certain and usually dire situations where your skills can save the party. A Dragoon or Monk certainly doesn't have influence like that.

[Kitkat]

In my opinion, in a short term fight brd is strictly DPS, and in long term (IE 8man instance battles/coils) brd is a DPS/DPS enhancer with minor support by use of songs. The reason I say this is because other DPS around you will gain extended DPS capability by giving them Paeon, starting off with foe will enhance the Magic users dealing damage (and if you can squeeze it in at other points even better), and more often than not in long duration fights I'm giving Paeon out far more often than Ballad or Foe. Even a tank can state just how important well timed Paeons in long fights are important.....especially since they can't use invigorate!

I dislike that we, already having lowest damage weapons, take another damage debuff hit when using Ballad/Paeon, but also acknowledge that without a brd, downing T8 isn't going to happen due to running out of TP too often - because from what I've seen melee still outshine blm on this fight, the gap just isn't as great now. Brd can still do 350~370DPS on t8 even using songs, but without using them (cause even brd becomes starved for tp in that fight), we still don't out do other melee.

To this extent I will agree entirely that brd is a DPS, but they still have that ever important Support feature that is glaringly obvious in prolonged fights as compared to other support options other jobs get. Increasing amount healed, damage dealt by piercing, damage dealt by blunt, damage dealt by slashing, attack down, etc., etc., are all support options too, but none of them can stay up if the tp to use them isn't there, can they? A healer can't heal you if they run out of MP mid-fight and the cool downs for ether isn't up, can they? So yes, brd is a bit more supportive than people would like to admit, but we aren't a pure-bred support job and it shouldn't be used to blanket you if you're not holding up to what brd can put out DPS wise even with song duty.

[Black91CRX]

Not really, it is group dependant, some healers don't ever require mp same as tanks and such, and dps should learn how to control so that they do not run out of tp.

Well, not everyone I meet in DF/PF plays their job at 100% efficiency. To expect that is ridiculous. So I'm happy to lend a hand, not scold a person for playing below top tier.

[dramamine]

I just hit 50 with my bard. I was gonna start a new thread, but this seems like a good place to ask:

For those of you who sing in DF/PF groups, are there any rules of thumb/mental flowcharts/whatever you use to decide when to sing which songs, or do you kind of play it by ear?

I can think of a few obvious conditions for singing in general. if there are SMN or BLM in your party, be a lot more aggressive with your offensive cooldowns during bosses and sing when you're waiting for them to come back. Mages ballad any times healer MP gets low. army's paeon for big pulls in dungeons, esp when the other DD is also a TP user. Are there any other less obvious cases where it's a good idea to sing?