Miqo'te Male/Female Relations and Views on Marriage

[Terrini]

I have a Miqo'te Keeper alt character I use for roleplaying, and during a session today, the question was asked of what ARE the Miqo'te views on marriage and Male/Female relations? Is inbreeding common because of the rarity of males? Do they HAVE "marriages" at all?

It's fairly clear about the Seekers that they're the polygamous type, one male heading many females. But the ratios are supposed to be true for Keepers as well and we do not hear much about their society and these kind of relations, so I was wondering if people could help me find the evidence about it, because it's pretty hard to remember and sift through all the little details...

[Velox]

The gender disparity is the same for both Seekers and Keepers, so ultimately they both have a "1 male mating several females" approach to life (necessary to keep the clans from dying out). The only difference is that in Seeker culture, males are usually the head of the tribe, while in Keeper culture the females tend to run things.

Of course once a miqo'te leaves home he/she pretty much throws away these notions and integrates into general society.

[Naria]

We know that Keepers have family units not tribes, but given the gender disparity it probably still is several females to a male. That said we don't know if Keepers have an analog to the Tia/Nuhn system. There is a reference to a "breeding male" in one of the Quarrymill leves but that could easily mean only that he is a male of the right age to breed. The only known male Keeper npc is the Coeurlking, who is very atypical of what we know about matriarchal keeper norms. If every male of the right age is considered a "breeding male", its possible that the female to breeding male ratio is much lower than the 15ish females to a Nuhn in a Seeker tribe, so the relationships between them could be closer and more structured. Perhaps sisters by the same mother share the same "husband". This is all just speculation.

It would be nice to know how many average live births are males for Miqo'te.

Edit: While I can recall a number of Seeker prostitutes, dancing girls and cross racial pairings, I don't remember any Keeper ones. If that's the case it might be more evidence for Keeper relationships being more structured. Or perhaps its just a consequence of their matriarchal society.

[Terrini]

The question was in relation to the society left behind in order to adventure, so of course the new life would be whatever you want it to be, but I just wanted a clearer idea of what that society left behind was in relation to male/female coupling.

[Kayokane]

based on how the lore looks Seeker's view males with a higher regard then Keepers do. since male names for Keepers are literally First/Second/Third son of <Mother's Name>, where as the male Nuhn's (breeding males) first name becomes the surname of every female Miqo'te he sires (Males being considered the family starters in Seeker Culture, whereas in Keeper Culture everything is based on the mother). I think Miqo'te due to their gender inequality don't really care for marriage as we view it (monogamous view on marriage), but I'd think Keeper's would be more drawn to it than Seeker's are.

You also have to note is Seeker culture one may be a Nuhn but are rarely ever the leader.

regretfully this is all conjecture based on the naming conventions lore post.

for those who left society to be an adventurer, well each one would probably view it differently. Some may enjoy the idea, some the meaning behind it, other's may view it as a treasure to be gained.

[Naria]

Considering that we've only seen one male Keeper npc, it certainly makes interesting speculation as to why there are suddenly male Keeper adventurers. Perhaps the Calamity resulted in a large amount of Keeper female deaths, and as a result males now have greater freedom to take on traditional female roles? I wonder if there will be a Keeper "Masculinist" movement in the future?

Edit:

I think Miqo'te due to their gender inequality don't really care for marriage as we view it (monogamous view on marriage)

I agree, but that doesn't rule out bigamy, after all with so few males, knowing who fathered who would be very important to avoid incest and inbreeding.

Edit 2: Or perhaps Keepers have some sort of "walking marriage". Bah I need to stop speculating and go to sleep.

[Kayokane]

Considering that we've only seen one male Keeper npc, it certainly makes interesting speculation as to why there are suddenly male Keeper adventurers. Perhaps the Calamity resulted in a large amount of Keeper female deaths, and as a result males now have greater freedom to take on traditional female roles? I wonder if there will be a Keeper "Masculinist" movement in the future?

I think the change in 'scarcity' of Male Keeper adventurer's is more to due with how Gridania views the Keeper Tribes (as they generally live in The Black Shroud) since The Calamity, Gridania has had more of a focus on the forest then the tribes giving them a bit more freedom then they used to have (if they were constantly hard-pressed by the overzealous Gridanians, yes I do view them as overzealous, but I think that may be my heritage talking ~Nyaa)

I agree, but that doesn't rule out bigamy, after all with so few males, knowing who fathered who would be very important to avoid incest and inbreeding.

it's polygamy they would be more attuned to, I doubt they would have a preference to just two wives

[Lucke]

Edit: While I can recall a number of Seeker prostitutes, dancing girls and cross racial pairings, I don't remember any Keeper ones. If that's the case it might be more evidence for Keeper relationships being more structured. Or perhaps its just a consequence of their matriarchal society.

If you go into the shop building in Drybone, there is a Moonie and Elezen couple shopping around. He mentions something about things being too expensive, and she talks about spending all his money. As far as I know, they're still there. The way they speak to each other ("dear", "love" "darling" I forgot which term she uses) makes it fairly obvious they're a couple.

[Naria]

. . . it's polygamy they would be more attuned to, I doubt they would have a preference to just two wives

True it was polygamy I was thinking of, see above reference to lack of sleep.

If you go into the shop building in Drybone, there is a Moonie and Elezen couple shopping around.

I thought that couple was a Seeker and an Elezen, but I'll take a closer look next time I log in.

[Velox]

snip

These are all very good points. The problem is that we aren't as exposed to the traditional Keeper society as we are to Seeker due to their choice to remain hidden. The Coeurlking is the ONLY male Keeper NPC in the game. The question is if this is because of the matriarchal influence in keeping males safe and hidden(think Mithra in FFXI), or because Keeper males are much rarer than Seeker males? The thought of a male leader, while seems odd given what we know of Keeper tradition, but it may not be what we think it is. It's very possible that males, like the Coeurlking, can be representative figureheads of a singular clan/family. The women themselves can still decide what's best for everyone, thus keeping with a matriarchal structure, but are able to rally around a single entity for the sake of unity. The male seems like the logical choice here since he's the one who's being shared amongst the rest of the clan, and is their common link. Again this is my speculation given what we know versus what we see.

It's also very possible that inbreeding is no longer a concern for miqo'te who keep to traditional clan/tribe structure. While it's true that, in the short term, a pairing of closely related individuals can lead to the emergence of undesirable recessive traits (which run within a single family), inbreeding over an extended period of time over many generations can lead to these genes being weeded out. Given the long history of miqo'te tradition (even before the migration), they may have seen these traits expunged from the gene pool centuries ago. This also supports the argument of why some miqo'te leave the clan/tribe lifestyle to pursue other ventures (don't see Y'shtola hanging around with a nuhn :P) and why others stay. Perhaps the traditionalist miqo'te prefer to keep their bloodlines pure, and this gives rise to communities like the U at Forgotten Springs, and the Coeurlclaws at Taker's Rot. Again, purely speculation on my part.