Tales from the Calamity Lore Discussion

[Alberel]

Louisoix’s voice was distant. “Mayhap not. But the Twelve cannot be suffered to set foot upon Eorzean soil.” And then, head bowed, he told her the rest.
No. Minfilia shivered, suddenly feeling weak and cold. She had to fight the urge to rub her arms. “Is there truly no other way?”
“None half as reliable.” He placed a hand on her shoulder. “If I do not return, the others will look to you. You must be prepared to lead them.”
But I am not ready. She turned away, closing her eyes in a bid to stem the tears. “Do they know what you intend?”
“They know enough.”

Minfilia's story makes plain at last that Louisoix definitely did something that no one else knew about beyond just summoning the Twelve, and he didn't expect to return from the attempt. It appears he only confided his true intentions in the antecedent though. I'm assuming this is his trump card that somehow caused Bahamut to vanish.

Hopefully the final account will give us a big tease for whatever the twist at the end of Coil is going to be.

His vehement opposition to a full summoning of the Twelve is interesting as well. Almost sounds like something Gaius would have said...

[Morningstar1337]

Minfilia's story makes plain at last that Louisoix definitely did something that no one else knew about beyond just summoning the Twelve, and he didn't expect to return from the attempt. It appears he only confided his true intentions in the antecedent though. I'm assuming this is his trump card that somehow caused Bahamut to vanish.

Hopefully the final account will give us a big tease for whatever the twist at the end of Coil is going to be.

His vehement opposition to a full summoning of the Twelve is interesting as well. Almost sounds like something Gaius would have said...

Maybe Louisoux knows a deeper connection between the the Twelve and the Primals, something that shoudl shake all that the people Eorzea knew about them to the core,

and maybe Gaius and the Garlean Empire also knew of this connection

[Anonymoose]

I'm assuming this is his trump card that somehow caused Bahamut to vanish.

I used to think that the cause was Dalamud itself - that it was so well engineered that even in pieces it tried to re-connect what chunks of itself it could, causing Bahamut to be torn apart as he was pulled back between the internment hulks. Now, I've just stopped theorizing and am going to let the surprise happen. That said, the last thing we saw Louisoix do was channel all the remaining power into summoning Althyk at the last second (you can even see the god's glyph as the Warriors of Light are sent away). We don't actually know what the full effects of that were - perhaps Bahamut's vanishing and Nanamo's hearing of "Let Eorzea be born anew" were related to a secondary effect this invocation had. Right now, I'm thinking that

the evil, aetherial re-construction of Louisoix is going to spill the beans in the third coil.

We know that part of Nael's essence was prevented from returning to the lifestream and used to reconstruct that thing in Turn 9. We don't know how Bahamut "botched the job," in the words of Urianger, and made him that female, Garlean Hyur, though. (It's easy to say "Well, maybe he was!" but then you have to explain how, even though he didn't have a voice actor, everyone he ever talked to - including Gaius, who presumably saw him without his mask back at the base many a time - maintained the masculine pronoun when referring to him.) Still, when defeated, Bahamut relinquished his hold on this creation and Nael's essence regained consciousness for a brief second. ("No... A moment... My thoughts are clouded...and this body is not mine own."). Even the nametag changed back to Nael van Darnus, until evil-Louisoix throws a javelin through him, anyway.

It's predictable from there that evil-Louisoix knows exactly what real-Louisoix did, and will either mock it as part of his pre-battle diatribe, or, that after his defeat, true Louisoix will return for a brief moment to say his goodbyes, which incidentally is something that could do the plot (and especially Alisae) some good.

I've said all along that Lou being alive would ruin the End of an Era cutscene and the entire meaning of his sacrifice, but SE's managed to tread the very, very thin line around this loophole without going far enough to knock over their house of cards, yet (knock on wood), which is commendable, because pretty much everyone who tries the "dead good guy is back as the bad guy" thing does go too far and does f[kupo]k the whole thing up.

If SE can keep toeing the line skillfully, Louisoix's delayed final moments could be freakin' heartbreaking. (Again.)

His vehement opposition to a full summoning of the Twelve is interesting as well. Almost sounds like something Gaius would have said...

Something he did say in the Praetorium encounter.

In Eorzea, the beast tribes often summon gods to fight in their stead─though your comrades only rarely respond in kind. Which is strange, is it not? Are the “Twelve” otherwise engaged? I was given to understand they were your protectors. If you truly believe them your guardians, why do you not repeat the trick that served you so well at Carteneau, and call them down? They will answer─so long as you lavish them with crystals and gorge them on aether. Your gods are no different from those of the beasts─eikons every one. Accept but this, and you will see how Eorzea's faith is bleeding the land dry.

I knew that Louisoix was afraid the physical manifestations would drain the realm dry as surely as Bahamut, but it's very interesting to see him frame it the same as Gaius - no different than the beastmen. No different than false icons... Very interesting, indeed... but does it go towards shifting perception of the true nature of the Twelve, or the true nature of primal essences? Hmmm...

[Morningstar1337]

I knew that Louisoix was afraid the physical manifestations would drain the realm dry as surely as Bahamut, but it's very interesting to see him frame it the same as Gaius - no different than the beastmen. No different than false icons... Very interesting, indeed... but does it go towards shifting perception of the true nature of the Twelve, or the true nature of primal essences? Hmmm...

I think that the Twelve may be something like the Greeks' Protogenoi, primordial deities. To continue the analogy, the Titans would be the Elder Primals Odin and Bahamut and the Olympians would be Ifrit, Titan (ironic), Garuda, leviathan, ramuh and Shiva (Though how Hydealyn and Zodiarc fits in especially considerind Ramuh's musings on the primals preceding the Light/Dark dichotomy has me considering lumping all the primals into one group)

Point being that I think the Twelve might be the predecessors to the Primals.

Also note that Christianity has a concept called "Idoltry" the worship of false idols/icons. This can be loosely apply to the primals in relation to Hydealyn (thought as far as we know the primals are godlikely enought that the connection is loose at best) But what about the Twelve? They might be false idols within this context as well, especially if they turn out to be the primals' predecessors

[myahele]

Interesting. This truly confirms that summoning the 12 is dangerous to the land. I always thought the Ascian method of summoning caused primals to feed on aether and the the 12 are more or less good.


The ala mhigans trid to summon ther god, but we stopped them. Now there Ishgard. No matter how benevolent they are they still consume large aether and might stay.

[Enkidoh]

Interesting. This truly confirms that summoning the 12 is dangerous to the land. I always thought the Ascian method of summoning caused primals to feed on aether and the the 12 are more or less good.


The ala mhigans trid to summon ther god, but we stopped them. Now there Ishgard. No matter how benevolent they are they still consume large aether and might stay.

The thing is, the game's storyline has pretty much told us that summoning period, regardless of what actually is summoned, is what is bad - what is being evoked is pretty much irrelevant as ultimately it all ends up the same anyway. Good King Moggle Mog the XII is the poster child for this - his existence pretty much all but screams that with enough willpower and crystals you could summon anything you wish, and the form would be exactly the same as the Primals, a dangerous aetheric sponge that is a warped form of it's source who then proceeds to brainwash others in order to continue to anchor itself to the corporeal realm. You could wish for a fish sandwich and summoning it with enough crystals would result in a giant fish sandwich monster that would then turn you and everyone in earshot into mindless zealots hopelessly devoted to it.

Hence why Louisoix only summoned a portion of the Primal's power - he knew that summoning the Twelve wouldn't actually result in the Twelve appearing as shining beacons of light. He used the shortcut to summon a portion of their power as it was the only safe option. Ironically, if you think about it, this is also somewhat analogous to the exact same thing players are doing with the SMN Job - summoning a portion of a Primal's power instead of the full Primal itself.

As for the latest Calamity Tale, I really enjoyed this one as it answered some long standing questions, particularly, 'who founded the Path of the Twelve?' I'm pleased that Minfilia was revealed to have been the one who was responsible for the Path's formation (with prodding from Louisoix of course ), but it does raise a question as to why she called her position Acting Antecedent in 1.0. However I noticed a slight contentious point that seems a bit odd in it's inclusion:

Nael van Darnus is dead. It should be over. Alone in the solar of the Waking Sands, Minfilia paced. Overhead, the lesser moon Dalamud continued its descent towards Eorzea, apparently indifferent to the demise of the Meteor project’s chief orchestrator. Can naught else be done?

This has a possible error in that in version 1.0 Minfilia's office in the Waking Sands (the original one in Ul'dah), was actually called The Hall of the First Step, not 'the solar' which is it's name in ARR in the relocated Waking Sands in Vesper Bay. This might be a possible retcon though (especially for the benefit of those who didn't play 1.0, but for a 1.0 player it does seem pretty jarring). I know I'm being pedantic here but I can't help it, I'm weird like that.

Anyway, thank you so much for these juicy lore morsels Ferne! I must admit I can't wait to see what the final one is.

[PArcher]

I'm trying to figure this out:


"You Will See the Truth of this , Minfilia, when one who bears the light comes to stand before you. One who is gifted, like you. Together, you will greet the dawn. "
and
Five years Spent working, Watching, waiting. But not in vain . WHEN For the Adventurer Entered the Solar to greet the scions, She Knew at once. I am ready.


What does this mean for 1.0 players, who she already had met and knew? The first quote takes place before the whole "we've forgotten the Warriors of Light" thing...

I'm not a 1.0 player; did something change about them (besides being forgotten) that would make this "true", for you to have not been recognized as this person before the Calamity?



EDIT: I was also sure that Minfilia would have been last of the five tales. Still unsure who the fifth is, but I don't think the Flame General will be it, and I also don't really think Gaius will be either (though his tale would be a good one to hear). As for Lahabrea...I just can't see it. Only other thing I can think of is if the last Tale is a "collection" of smaller tales from the Sharlayans...
While I really doubt it would be this...watch that its our favorite Inspector

[Morningstar1337]

I think the 5th tale would be Louisoux or Alphinaud

[Anonymoose]

summoning period, regardless of what actually is summoned, is what is bad

Unless it's done with Arcanima, at least. Shaping local aether with symbols into beings that you can control and return to the aether at will differs somehow from ritual summoning, even though ones that specialize in doing it with primal essences are called summoners. I don't even really understand the functional difference. Does the individual summoner with lack of worship for the egi limit the conjuration beyond the feedback loop? Perhaps that's why you must bend it to your will before it will obey.

You could wish for a fish sandwich and summoning it with enough crystals would result in a giant fish sandwich monster that would then turn you and everyone in earshot into mindless zealots hopelessly devoted to it.

ALL GLORY TO THE BURRITO KNIGHT.

Louisoix <...> knew that summoning the Twelve wouldn't actually result in the Twelve

I'm curious if this is true, or if he simply thought that not even the Twelve could overcome the hunger a summoned deity inherently has for aether. During Living on a Prayer he spoke of the beings he intended to summon with a lot of reverence for a source of power he didn't think would be legit.

I would have you become the beacon to summon forth the Twelve─aye, the guardian deities of Eorzea. Nophica, the Matron <...> and Thaliak, the Scholar─patron deity of mine own Sharlayan. <...> Faith in the Twelve is strong in this land. By channeling that faith through prayer, we should be able to call upon their aid. <...> Alas, we cannot simply pray wheresoever we please. We must needs present ourselves before the gods, at the places where they lie in slumber. <...> I would have you embark on a pilgrimage to each of the locations and give fervent prayer─a prayer for Eorzea's salvation. In so doing, the gods shall awaken to lend us their aid. <...> By the grace of the Twelve, let us deliver Eorzea from her doom, and usher in a new era of peace and prosperity!

EDIT:
I wonder if Lewphon had a hand in this - the early Sixth Astral Era Sharlayan theologian who wove together all of Eorzeas disparate histories into one common thread. It looks like he took the gods of nations recently fallen, and the gods of nations currently rising, and bound them all together in one pantheon in a spirit of unification and co-operation. By invoking the strength of all of them from their respective locations, it would surround Cartenau and perhaps be enough to reverse the fall of a moon. If Lewphon never lived, Louisoix's ritual might have looked very, very different. The fact that geography and elements are so important, linked with the Summoner storyline, even fits with my fringe theory about the primals being the gods of past eras, "souls torn and bodies forsaken."

What does this mean for 1.0 players, who she already had met and knew?

Minfilia met and oversaw a good number of people, and while you were indeed helpful to the Path in 1.0, there wasn't much that made you stand out against all of the other Walkers until you went off with Louisoix to stop the primals, kill the Raven, and fight at Cartenau. During that time, the quests involved the Grand Companies, not Minfilia, so there was some distance between you.

When Louisoix tells her to look out for the one who will herald the dawn, it needs to work for old and new players. For new players, it's their first meeting and Minfilia watches them become a Warrior of Light throughout the game and Louisoix seems like he was prophesying that she should be looking out for this event. For 1.0 players, when you walk through the door, Louisoix's words become instead a prophecy that she'd know as soon as she saw you (a Warrior of Light vanished from Cartenau) return, they must be the one.

[blackjackets]

Actually, a note of interest! The other languages make that line about 'told her the rest' a lot less vague -- basically, he knew he was going to die at Carteneau. This is from both a friend who reads Japanese and a German friend, so....

Mayby someone from the thread could find the translations, because I don't have them, but...ow. Ow, really, Lou?

(Also I think #5 is either going to be Louisoix, Cid, or Gaius.)