[Dev1032] Poll: Lower MP Cost for Cure/Sacrifice/Curaga or leave it the way it is

[AlexiaKidd]

Leave as is. I believe that when WHM comes one of it's perks will be lower MP costs for Cure spells to encourage people to use it.

[Matty86]

Leave it the way it is

[Kiara]

Leave as is. I believe that when WHM comes one of it's perks will be lower MP costs for Cure spells to encourage people to use it.

Leave it the way it is (1.18).

As many others have said, this is only *part* of the changes coming to the Class System, let alone the new Final Fantasy Job System being released (1.20 - 1.21).

With MP being *valuable* now, it brings a whole new dynamic to combat. Before 1.18, doing the "high level content" at the time (the 5 Open World NMs), or even taking on R70 - 80 Mobs for the fun of it, was a joke for Mages. AOE Cure, AOE Sacrifice III, AOE Siphon MP II, repeat, with almost no hate repercussions, let alone MP Management thought.

Now after 1.18, not only do Mages have to think about things, but it also means everyone in the party should do their part to make each Battle successful.

For example, if you've ever fought a Puk, you can see them "glowing" and charging up their Flip Kick Frontal Attack (Weaponskill). This can be avoided if you move to the side or behind it fast enough. It's just one example, but positioning in battle, actually thinking and not just spamming "1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3 1 1 " (for DoW) and not having Mages just sit back and spam the occasional AOE Cure III is much more important now.

It also makes DoW abilities like Second Wind I / II, Life Surge, Bloodbath, etc., *useful* and helpful. They can regain HP back with these abilities and "pitch in" during longer battles to help offset some Curing load.

Lastly, like Alexia writes,

* We don't know what the White Mage JOB Layer is going to be like when it gets released.

Who's to say that once you activate the White Mage Layer (on top of Conjurer Class), that:

* MP Costs are Reduced 25%.
* Recast Timers are Reduced 25%.

and various other changes to make White Mage stand out more?

We need to wait to see all changes before demanding things get reverted. Let's see what 1.19, 1.20 and the Job System brings before crucifying Yoshida-san and his team. I think Yoshida-san said it best in his Letter from Producer:

Yoshida: the theme of the overhaul to the battle system is reward effort, reduce monotony. Let’s see if that holds off the pokes.

Think of the satisfaction you get when taking out an enemy solo by a stroke of brilliance. Or the supreme exhilaration you feel when pwning entire hoards of foes by playing out your party role to perfection. Now, in contrast, imagine a person who, with only half his heart in the battle, struggles to dispatch the enemy. This kind of range in experience is what we’re aiming for with the reformed battle system—a system that rewards effort and innovation.

Before 1.18, it was truly *monotonous*. Guildleve Parties (even at 5 Star Settings at Broken Water), Raptor Parties, Open World NMs: Mage sit back and spam AOE Cure / Sacrifice, with no care for MP since you can get it back so fast (and it costs so little).

DoW didn't care if they got hit, another AOE Cure is coming right around the corner.

Now after 1.18?

Enmity matters. Watch out for how much Hate you pull. Time your spells. Watch your MP. Be smarter. Combat *does* feel more rewarding (at least going through Dzemael Darkhold (even in Raptor Parties)).

I can't wait to see what's next.

[Reaujien]

Leave it the way it is (1.18).

As many others have said, this is only *part* of the changes coming to the Class System, let alone the new Final Fantasy Job System being released (1.20 - 1.21).

With MP being *valuable* now, it brings a whole new dynamic to combat. Before 1.18, doing the "high level content" at the time (the 5 Open World NMs), or even taking on R70 - 80 Mobs for the fun of it, was a joke for Mages. AOE Cure, AOE Sacrifice III, AOE Siphon MP II, repeat, with almost no hate repercussions, let alone MP Management thought.

Now after 1.18, not only do Mages have to think about things, but it also means everyone in the party should do their part to make each Battle successful.

For example, if you've ever fought a Puk, you can see them "glowing" and charging up their Flip Kick Frontal Attack (Weaponskill). This can be avoided if you move to the side or behind it fast enough. It's just one example, but positioning in battle, actually thinking and not just spamming "1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 3 1 1 " (for DoW) and not having Mages just sit back and spam the occasional AOE Cure III is much more important now.

It also makes DoW abilities like Second Wind I / II, Life Surge, Bloodbath, etc., *useful* and helpful. They can regain HP back with these abilities and "pitch in" during longer battles to help offset some Curing load.

Lastly, like Alexia writes,

* We don't know what the White Mage JOB Layer is going to be like when it gets released.

Who's to say that once you activate the White Mage Layer (on top of Conjurer Class), that:

* MP Costs are Reduced 25%.
* Recast Timers are Reduced 25%.

and various other changes to make White Mage stand out more?

We need to wait to see all changes before demanding things get reverted. Let's see what 1.19, 1.20 and the Job System brings before crucifying Yoshida-san and his team. I think Yoshida-san said it best in his Letter from Producer:

Before 1.18, it was truly *monotonous*. Guildleve Parties (even at 5 Star Settings at Broken Water), Raptor Parties, Open World NMs: Mage sit back and spam AOE Cure / Sacrifice, with no care for MP since you can get it back so fast (and it costs so little).

DoW didn't care if they got hit, another AOE Cure is coming right around the corner.

Now after 1.18?

Enmity matters. Watch out for how much Hate you pull. Time your spells. Watch your MP. Be smarter. Combat *does* feel more rewarding (at least going through Dzemael Darkhold (even in Raptor Parties)).

I can't wait to see what's next.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

[Charismatic]

What I'm more concerned about than MP costs (which I currently don't have much of an opinion on) is enmity for low ranks. Yes, low ranks matter, I don't care how many rank 50s you have, there's a lot of people with lower ranked mage classes and I'd sure LOVE to be able to cure my partner while duoing a guildleve without having the other enemies run straight for me.

It's really far more of an issue at low ranks than higher ones because there's far less ways to actually deal with it. Just started a new character with a buddy on another server the other day and when we hit drybone I had to be ready to kite anytime I'd cure. This desperately needs some tweaking.

[Davorok]

I vote we wait till after patch 1.20 when presumably all the pieces of the Grand Re-design are in place, before we start re-designing the re-design.

[Chocobits]

No. I disapprove of this thread.

What is wrong with mages and MP doesn't have anything to do with the increased casting costs. It has everything to do with the sloppy battle mechanics, every mob in the game actually being an Archer, the armoury system and its ridiculous "affinity", and threads/mentalities like this thread where you need to be in one camp or the other.

The entire line of healing spells and Sacrifice needs re-visioning
AOE needs re-visioning (removing it from some spells and adding true aoe spells isn't the answer)
Damage formulas need reworking
Stat distribution needs major revising per rank up (since physical levels are going bye bye)
Base stats on a new rank 1 character are so skewed, starting unreasonably high and advancing slowly after

The HP/MP that a level 50 end up with (assuming they haven't stacked some ridiculous amount of points all into 1 stat) are very similar to that of a lvl 75 ends up with in FFXI. So why is our first tier cure healing for nearly 300 with heavy MND?

Increasing the MP costs was expected because of aoe.. but then aoe was removed at the same time.. it seems like SE is working AROUND the armoury system instead of with it. Why re-invent the wheel? Let everyone pic 1 sub class that they can use abilities from, similar to FFXI's subjob system. How does it make sense to have a PUG that can use GLA defensive abilities, AND equip spells?

Also, GLA needs to have cure spells added as part of its own class. Just saying.

[Arcell]

I voted for lowering it BUT only slightly. It's good that spells have a cost consequence associated with them, you can't just spam them now. I think it was great to raise them but I feel the went a little too far.

Again I'm for lowering them slightly.

[Chocobits]

I voted for lowering it BUT only slightly. It's good that spells have a cost consequence associated with them, you can't just spam them now. I think it was great to raise them but I feel the went a little too far.

Again I'm for lowering them slightly.

Other than very tiny adjustments to actual costs of cure spells, they need very little adjustment. They've fallen much more in line with the HP to MP ratio of cure spells of FFXI, which does a great job balancing resourcing. I would adjust the MP cost of every other spell, such as CON nukes. And remove CON nukes entirely, giving them to THM... but I digress.

Fixing the armoury system and battle mechanics is more of a real fix than adjusting MP values, which is just a spot weld.

[Arcell]

Other than very tiny adjustments to actual costs of cure spells, they need very little adjustment. They've fallen much more in line with the HP to MP ratio of cure spells of FFXI, which does a great job balancing resourcing. I would adjust the MP cost of every other spell, such as CON nukes. And remove CON nukes entirely, giving them to THM... but I digress.

Fixing the armoury system and battle mechanics is more of a real fix than adjusting MP values, which is just a spot weld.

Well all I'm saying is that while the increase to MP costs is great as it requires people to actually think and manage MP I feel the team went a little too far, not much though. An adjustment, fine tuning if you will, yes. Not more than a touch.

I didn't address other things such as enmity, class uniqueness, balance, etc... This thread was simply asking for thoughts on the MP cost alone.