So votekick >abuse< is practically allowed?

[Hikoko]

No, it's not allowed. This is a pretty clear-cut example of a GM being a lazy sap. Resend the report and point out specifically why it doesn't fall under the heading of "differing playstyle".

This was already the 2nd report. The first was regarded as "player dispute", same result.

If the answer was "Yes" to any of those last four questions

None of these questions are answered with yes. If that was the case, the GM would've told me that the kick was justified for that matter and not that it's player dispute/different playstyle.

Also, mind posting that last message GM mentioned on that reply? Omitting player names ofc.

It was just an automated response explaining how different playstyles ("skipping in-game cutscenes, disagreement on using specific boss encounter tactics, equipment deemed not high enough etc") are nothing the GM cares about.

If you keep getting kicked from DF's maybe YOU are the problem and not the system?

I don't know why you are assuming I keep getting kicked, when I said I've been kicked once. No, I'm not getting kicked all the time, but it's really nice to know that you've been in hundreds of duty finder groups.

Yeah, except this never happens.

Just because you haven't heard about it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.
Besides that, it was just one example.

Why deal with a newbie when you can just kick him?
"Sorry, your damage is high enough to beat this dungeon, but we would like to clear it faster".
Or something like "Oh, you don't have the equipment for a speedrun? Bye".


I didn't open this thread to QQ that my report didn't get accepted. I wanted to show that the votekick system is broken because you can easily avoid punishment for kicking players you don't want to play with (for whatever reason - when it's not their fault) by either stating he has a different playstyle before kicking him ("We would like you to do everything. Oh you don't want to do that, well okay bye") or by provoking an argument with the player and then kicking him (making it a player dispute, in which the GM does not interfere as stated by other players aswell).
These are examples exaggerated, but you get the idea. And again, I emphasize examples. There are more.

Before implementing the system, they said they wanted to make sure it's not being abused, and then they added a policy that leaves open doors for everything who WANTS to abuse it.
ust make up a reason and kick the player for your actual reasoning (too s; the GM will just agree with the person who votekicked. Whether this happens once or a thousand times doesn't matter: It happens and it's unfair and the GMs either don't care or aren't allowed to act properly due to the offical, flawed policy.

[Mogi]

I've been in hundreds of DF's since vote kick was added and have never been kicked. If you keep getting kicked from DF's maybe YOU are the problem and not the system?

Or you have never ran into rude or dumb players yet {trust me you will} that aside SE is far from perfect i was cussed out by 2 guys that had the same fc and got vote kicked and when i reported the GMs did nothing

[MeiUshu]

this isnt about if YOu have been kicked or not Totobi, the point in here is people being vote kicked for...something like asking a question or making mistakes or simply for being new...and being tagged of harrassement or such....in truth people that think like you are truely the problem ...people that believe that they can get rid of things that they dont like by using fallacious reasons that are based on lies. I am not saying to keep someone that insults berates which is harrassement or is absent as in long absence....but kicking someone becasue you just dont like him or her asking a question or making mistakes that is what shouldnt be allowed...just because it didnt happened to you doesnt mean that you have not seen it happen to others or even be part of those that used those false reasons to get rid of someone.

Mei

[Totobi]

.in truth people that think like you are truely the problem ...people that believe that they can get rid of things that they dont like by using fallacious reasons that are based on lies.

I've only ever vote kicked AFK people and never abused the vote kick system. Vote kick abuse is so rare that it's almost a non-issue - but if it happens a lot to you then i stand by what i say. Maybe YOU are the problem.

(Don't mean that to sound directly aimed at you, it's a general statement.)

[Brine_Gildchaff]

I've only ever vote kicked AFK people and never abused the vote kick system. Vote kick abuse is so rare that it's almost a non-issue - but if it happens a lot to you then i stand by what i say. Maybe YOU are the problem.

Nnnnno, with vote kick abuse it's most definitely the other guys who are the problem. I had a Stone Vigil HM run as Bard (I've been using BRD to do expert roulette lately so I can grab the i80 gear to bolster my ilvl) where we had some definite problems, primarily due to the healer waiting far too long to heal up and the tank getting too many mobs on him at once. After some iffy luck on Giruveganus (I got clipped by two of his moves in a row and died, the healer refused to rez me) and an interlude where the other bard claimed he'd been there a few times on an alt, the tank and healer decided to kick the DPS, and listed the reason as "cheating", then laughed about it all the way to the boss. I took them to task for it and they said, "we should have kicked you too", and when I asked why? "Shit gear." (I was wearing i71 with an HQ Sarnga, so I was absolutely above the dungeon's threshold.)

You'd best start believing in votekick-abusing playerbases, Mr. Totobi. You're in one.

Why deal with a newbie when you can just kick him?
"Sorry, your damage is high enough to beat this dungeon, but we would like to clear it faster".
Or something like "Oh, you don't have the equipment for a speedrun? Bye".

Agreed wholeheartedly with this. I've been lucky enough to rarely have to deal with elitist pricks, but I got a friend into playing the game as a monk, and he's had to deal with all sorts of verbal abuse and outright vote kicks while trying to climb the gear treadmill, and been told specifically it was because of his gear not being "good enough" even though it was all class-appropriate and above the level. Just because some people have blinders that even Mr. Ed would shy at doesn't mean that abuse isn't rampant in this game.

[MeiUshu]

I've only ever vote kicked AFK people and never abused the vote kick system. Vote kick abuse is so rare that it's almost a non-issue - but if it happens a lot to you then i stand by what i say. Maybe YOU are the problem.

(Don't mean that to sound directly aimed at you, it's a general statement.)

just because you dont see it or REFUSE to admit that it happens more then you think, that it means it doesnt happen. I wont even comment on your post as that is pretty dumb to even come here and say that it is the one being kick exclusively that is the culprit, in my opinion that is.

I see those kind of abuse at the very least 2-3x a day in DF during my playtime and I play around 5h a day and I do almost exclusively DF, everyday...lets see the main reasons that I witnessed

- he is a noob, because he doesnt know, so lets kick,
- he is not geared high enough, although he has the requirements for it,
- he is not answering, when the guy doesnt speak good enough english and is translating to be able to answer,
- oh he is lagging too much, although he was caught once in the plumes, speaking of Titan
- oh his dps is too low, although others were just about as worse as him if not even worse

and EACH time, the reason invoked to kick was *harrassement*....I have to come to the sad conclusion that if you are not able to admit that this happens and often, then either of the three possibilities apply to you either, you lie by saying that the problem is ALWAYS the one being kicked, which is sad and kind of silly, or you are affected by sheep attitude, aka if someone voted that he is harrassing that must be true and so I will vote the same, or simply you are one of those that are kick-happy beacuse you believe that you are invested by some divine power to decide whether someone can play or not, the question is..which one of the three is applying to you ? I personally already know in which category such person belong to.

oh of course before I forget, the *you* is meant as general you except for my first paragraph.

Mei



Mei (out of this sad topic)

[Totobi]

post #25

I can only speak from my experiences, and unless i'm just very lucky or my data center is amazing, abuse of this just isn't that widespread and i rarely, if ever, see it. Sorry. The only vote kicks i participate in are usually people AFK / leeching in ST.

Also, have you considered people pick the "Harassment" option because the options are very limited? You only have Offline; AFK, Cheating and Harassment. None of these apply to someone not playing in a way you like, so what are they supposed to pick? Maybe they should just add an option titled "Other".

[Hikoko]

It sounds more like the entire PT was fed up of the OP and kicked them. The last bit of the GM mail says that they didn't feel like they kicked him to to be dbags, so there was merit I guess.

As I have previously stated, this thread is about SE's general policy and the loophole that comes with it for abuse. Nothing else.
So there is really no point in trying to discredit me.

[Rydia13]

I'm not sure how I feel about this yet. Part of me thinks it's unfair to get kicked just cuz other people dislike or are bothered by your playstyle, and the other part of me feels that I don't want to waste 45 minutes fighting something that takes 15 just because you refuse to watch the video.

I'd say that based on the response from the GM I'm not too bothered. It sounds more like the entire PT was fed up of the OP and kicked them. The last bit of the GM mail says that they didn't feel like they kicked him to to be dbags, so there was merit I guess.

There's a big difference between "you're holding us back so we're kicking u" and just kicking someone cuz you dislike them. The latter would've been properly reprimanded I'd hope.

[Black_Wing]

I'm not sure how I feel about this yet. Part of me thinks it's unfair to get kicked just cuz other people dislike or are bothered by your playstyle, and the other part of me feels that I don't want to waste 45 minutes fighting something that takes 15 just because you refuse to watch the video.

I'd say that based on the response from the GM I'm not too bothered. It sounds more like the entire PT was fed up of the OP and kicked them. The last bit of the GM mail says that they didn't feel like they kicked him to to be dbags, so there was merit I guess. There's a big difference between "you're holding us back so we're kicking u" and just kicking someone cuz you dislike them. The latter would've been properly reprimanded I'd hope.

If you don't want to waste your time with people not watching videos, stop going into DF solo and build your own premade parties. I've completed most of the content in this game without ever watching a video, they aren't necessary and most people learn the fights better with actual effort involved and not passively taking part in the "action". All it takes is a simple 30 second explanation and MAYBE a couple of attempts to clear 99% of the content in this game.