So votekick >abuse< is practically allowed?

[Defteros]

well, queueing with only lv1 gear and standing still for the entire time, for me, IT IS harassement.

was he trolling? was he expecting to gain exp point without doing nothing? who knows.
but I spent half an hour waiting for the duty to start, I'm not gonna spend time waiting again, because you think you are funny.

clearly it depends on how people use the vote kick... but you can't expect every player to have a brain and to use it.
just look at all the "summoner is ugly" "atma sucks" etc. thread in the forums xD

didnt know there was a reason for kicking people that want to be carried without in your opinion doing a thing?...you are the reason why I am against the kick vote button.

well... if you continue to get hit by plumes, or generally derping on the same boss mechanic, repeatedly... yes, you deserve a vote kick.
especially if you join a "exp only/farm party/going for the kill/know the strat" and you actually can't even stay alive till titan's heart. for example D:

[Chihaya]

Didn't say I was talking to YOU. You are sure too self conscious.

Just stating that the use of vote kick outweighs the abuse, abuse from what I have seen is relatively rare - if a person continuously get vote kicked, it is probably a problem with them instead.

And yea, I'll kick people if they just want to get carried - including getting locked out of fights on purpose - extensive AFKs - failing mechanics and causing repeated wipes when other players explain over and over what to do.



Different playstyle - Deal with it.

I don't run duties for you while you do nothing. If you want to participate and have basic hand-eye coordinations/motor skills, I probably won't kick you. But if you want to troll me and have me do everything for you - gtfo

[KIka93]

Really glad to see that this community is about as dull as a sack of hammers. The clearest solution is to present this to SE, and I'm going to be doing so.

1.) "Different playstyles" Will not hold up if there is no prior complaints during the dungeon run. This means they can't just up and kick you.
2.) Viewing ingame cutscenes during dungeons is not a kickable offense, and anyone saying otherwise can shove off.
3.) Stating what item they'd like to get, of course if they put their time in, they have every right as a player to get said item, it's a dungeon in an MMO after all, players can't play god and decide who gets what, there's a roll system for a reason and people seem to forget that when they think they can swing their e-peen. (I'm gonna get a lot of flak from the FC people for this one, which is why I'm saying this: This is in the event of DF runs, not an organized FC run.)
4.) Questioning a playstyle and getting kicked when someone doesn't like how you think. (I've been booted so many times when people got mad at me for telling them to run away from the worm in Cutter's Cry when he gets the whirlpool move going, and they say it's unavoidable.)

^ These above are NOT legitimate reasons for a vote kick, and anyone booting on those grounds should be punished in my opinion. That GM is insanely lazy and needs to be talked to by his supervisor, hell all of the GM's need to since people keep submitting complaints on the bot armies on servers and yet GM's won't take action despite the fact that these are definite botters.

Now some legitimate reasons for vote/kick include:

1.) When your playstyle hinders the dungeon to the point that you're keeping it from moving forward.
2.) Racial/Offensive language.
3.) Harassment of players.
4.) Cheating.
5.) AFK'ing for more than 3 minutes.
6.) Being severely behind on equipment or have no knowledge of how to do the basics of your job.

The rules are much more cut and dry as someone thinks.

[Riepah]

A Dragoon was kicked from coil turn 1 for unintentionally causing 2 wipes because they were new and nobody bothered to explain the fight to them, kick vote initiated by a raging, arrogant and rude tank.

I talked to a GM about it. Not considered votekick abuse. Examples of vote kick abuse: Kicking people before loot drops to intentionally keep them from getting it, or kicking people before the final boss to intentionally keep them from getting the dungeon clear.

Kicking people for being new? Fair game - but it shouldn't be, the rules need some looking at.

[KIka93]

A Dragoon was kicked from coil turn 1 for unintentionally causing 2 wipes because they were new and nobody bothered to explain the fight to them, kick vote initiated by a raging, arrogant and rude tank.

I talked to a GM about it. Not considered votekick abuse. Examples of vote kick abuse: Kicking people before loot drops to intentionally keep them from getting it, or kicking people before the final boss to intentionally keep them from getting the dungeon clear.

Kicking people for being new? Fair game - but it shouldn't be, the rules need some looking at.

SE is notorious for being backwardss with their common sense.

[Xine]

SE and their GMs being practically useless has been "a thing" since FFXI, but its interesting to hear that vote kicking new players isn't against the ToS, coulda swore I read it was in there before, maybe I just interpreted it wrong but as with "uncommon sense" goes, kicking a new player because they a) dont know any better, or b) arent "properly" geared, should in all honesty be against the ToS.

[Nimras]

Once when st was new i was kicked on the last boss for what i can only imagine was loot (no wipes, no complaints). Its the only time ive ever been kicked but it still bugs me a little. Still, there was no chat at all going on so theres really nothing to prove my case. Just move on and think twice before clicking yes the next time someone initiates a votekick, we as a community can set the norm for what is acceptable

[Niwashi]

If you are getting kicked often there's probably a reason.

People arguing that side keep trying to bring "often" into the equation. It only takes once to be abuse.

Once when st was new i was kicked on the last boss for what i can only imagine was loot (no wipes, no complaints). Its the only time ive ever been kicked but it still bugs me a little. Still, there was no chat at all going on so theres really nothing to prove my case.

In a sane world, the lack of chat (or more obvious problems) would itself prove your case, as it should have been up to the people who kicked you to prove they had a legitimate reason for it. You shouldn't need to prove the lack of a reason. As you pointed out yourself, there were no complaints, just the kick itself.

Just the other day, I saw this happen to the arcanist in our party during a low-level roulette dungeon. All of a sudden, there was a vote-kick prompt for no apparent reason. The tank and healer must have both agreed to it though, because after I refused to agree to the kick, the arcanist was out anyway. (I was playing NIN at the time.) My best guess is that the healer was hoping to get both DPS slots filled by DoW, so he could have exclusive access to any caster gear that dropped, and the tank must have been a buddy of his to agree to it. I certainly can't think of any other reason for having kicked that arcanist from the group. He hadn't done anything disruptive and was contributing towards clearing the content (not the fastest, perhaps, but passable). I was rather glad that the replacement we got was another arcanist, so if that was the healer's plan, he didn't get his way. Still sucks for that first ACN we had, though.

[CGMidlander]

People arguing that side keep trying to bring "often" into the equation. It only takes once to be abuse.

If it only happens once, then I don't see the problem if the person would just nut up and shut up.
There's no need to be sensitive over something so trivial as a single event, as opposed to something chronic.

A thick skin is helpful in life.

[NyarukoW]

If it only happens once, then I don't see the problem if the person would just nut up and shut up.
....

What kind of foolishness is this? Sure think skin helps, but not everyone is armored like a turtle or armadillo.

An attitude like this is wrong on so many level. How about if some hacked your account and you don't even talk to SE customer service about it. It only happened once... right on. That makes a lot of sense. How about don't call the cops because your neighbor is being executed by the local gangbanger? They can only get killed once. This is why neighborhoods go down the drain btw. If there is a real problem, people should bring it up and discuss it. There can be debate about whether the problem is real or not, but telling people to be quiet, taking away their free speech rights, is non-starter.

...
You are not entitled to be useless in DF if a majority wants you gone. ...

A troll being afk, deliberately wiping is being useless, or perhaps even worse than useless. But a new/newer player learning the dungeon for the firs time are not being useless, nor are players gearing up. The majority is not right every time and there are cases where the minority must be protected. Because we are not privy to the GM cases reports, how well SE handles the vote kick abuse is impossible to determine, but I've seen people get penalties for vote kick abuse, as well as seeing trolls get penalties for trolling.