[Dev] Repair system problems

[Mikita]

Ah, thanks for catching that in the last paragraph. That's definitely a strawman argument right there without some elaboration and a rewrite. I was trying to get to the point that the system isn't new player friendly as it depends heavily on being familiar with the community in order to function.

You're right that new players may have a harder time. I still remember my first 3 weeks in Eorzea. First MMO ever. Not knowing anyone or anything about Final Fantasy "ways". It was a bit difficult and I made a lot of mistakes, including mistakes with items and gil -- like buying and selling everything at NPCs because I didn't know about the market wards, etc.

That said:

- New players should be using gear that only takes Grade 1 or Grade 2 material to repair, which shouldn't cost them very much to get fixed.

- The Repair NPC also doesn't charge very much for low level item repairs. I used them a lot when I first started and didn't know anyone on my server. They will only repair to 75% and the cost is high, but it's still a viable option if you don't have the time to seek repairs from other players.

- If you use appropriately ranked gear, the degradation isn't all that fast (IMO -- my gear goes down maybe 2 to 10% after a few hours of battles) and you should be able to accumulate a decent amount of gil before repairs do become necessary.

- It is an MMO and I think they intentionally build in benefits for interacting with other players. It's not absolutely necessary, but there are definitely benefits to playing nice with other people.

[Deatheye]

What do they wear on the field while the gear is on their retainer in the market ward, assuming their gear is in need of repair yet they still want to play?

My stuff gets repaired in a mather of seconds to a few minutes < 5.
As I and others sad put ab a reasonable price and it gets fixed before you finish to bazar it...
A good playe is in uldah near the repair NPC.

[Deatheye]

- If you use appropriately ranked gear, the degradation isn't all that fast (IMO -- my gear goes down maybe 2 to 10% after a few hours of battles) and you should be able to accumulate a decent amount of gil before repairs do become necessary.

Aside from char lvl versus gear lvl death also plays a role. If you die your eqip takes a lot of damage. They implented it so that you are forced to play with a bit of brain and not just run into the mob till it dies from you running into it. So be carefull and fight stuff you actually can kill without dying.

[Colt47]

You're right that new players may have a harder time. I still remember my first 3 weeks in Eorzea. First MMO ever. Not knowing anyone or anything about Final Fantasy "ways". It was a bit difficult and I made a lot of mistakes, including mistakes with items and gil -- like buying and selling everything at NPCs because I didn't know about the market wards, etc.

That said:

- New players should be using gear that only takes Grade 1 or Grade 2 material to repair, which shouldn't cost them very much to get fixed.

- The Repair NPC also doesn't charge very much for low level item repairs. I used them a lot when I first started and didn't know anyone on my server. They will only repair to 75% and the cost is high, but it's still a viable option if you don't have the time to seek repairs from other players.

- If you use appropriately ranked gear, the degradation isn't all that fast (IMO -- my gear goes down maybe 2 to 10% after a few hours of battles) and you should be able to accumulate a decent amount of gil before repairs do become necessary.

- It is an MMO and I think they intentionally build in benefits for interacting with other players. It's not absolutely necessary, but there are definitely benefits to playing nice with other people.

Sounds like a self contradiction with the part about repair costs. They don't charge much because of the gear level, but the amount being charged for the gear at that level is still a substantial amount of the appropriately ranked players money. The best gil sink is one that people don't pay attention to and utilize out of habit. If people notice that they are losing a huge chunk of cash going to a npc, that isn't a good gil sink.

Gear is something else, though, and really they have to find some way to make the pricing for items scale better for appropriate ranks. I've seen rank 20 leather armor that sells for far more than rank 30 leather armor, yet the game still seems to expect people to wear armor of the appropriate rank. Once they get around to fixing the AH system in this game it probably wont be as much of an issue, but right now the marketing ward system is just painful to look at or use.

[TheVedis]

What do they wear on the field while the gear is on their retainer in the market ward, assuming their gear is in need of repair yet they still want to play?

you dont understand what overnight means

what do they need gear for in the field if they arent even logged in?

[Mikita]

- The Repair NPC also doesn't charge very much for low level item repairs. I used them a lot when I first started and didn't know anyone on my server. They will only repair to 75% and the cost is high, but it's still a viable option if you don't have the time to seek repairs from other players.

Sounds like a self contradiction with the part about repair costs. They don't charge much because of the gear level, but the amount being charged for the gear at that level is still a substantial amount of the appropriately ranked players money.

Oops. Let me clarify that statement:

- The Repair NPC also doesn't charge very much for low level item repairs. I used them a lot when I first started and didn't know anyone on my server. They will only repair to 75% and the cost is higher than what players would charge, but it's still a viable option if you don't have the time to seek repairs from other players.

[Kobushi]

I hate crafting i have little time to play everyday, i dont wanna do boring stuff like shouting for repairs and waiting around, i hate it but i already came to peace with using repairs npcs all the time, gil is easy to make anyway.

What i hate the most is the fact that i can't sell used gear in the markets and can't even give gear to a friend that isn't 100%, to me it's just stupid, ok fine they won't let me sell stuff that is not mint condition, but give to friends?! how ridiculous. oh and the repair npc won't fix my rings...really?
well anway i just sell to npcs my old gear and buy new stuff...it's a huge loss in gil but seriously i don't care anymore i know that i won't be playing this game if this system remains as is when monthly fee is aplied... to me this item condition, selling and reselling of gear is the biggest bone i have to pick with this game

[Colt47]

you dont understand what overnight means

what do they need gear for in the field if they arent even logged in?

What I mean is that your comment is valid assuming that they are logging off at the end of a play session and need the repairs, but if they need repairs and are still playing, that strategy doesn't work unless they have a second set of gear.

I understand the point you are making and I'm sorry if it came off as being rude. Forum debating can be a bit of a tricky subject since we are only able to express ourselves using the written word. (And the occasional emote)

Also, has their been any discussion on making it so that player repairs give temporary item bonuses? It seems like the primary issue with doing anything further to npc repairs is that it will make player repairs irrelevant, so the other idea would be to also increase the relevance of the player repairs by adding in more benefits to the action. Make the npc repairs the quick, cheap, and dirty means to get things done and have the player repairs be the professional avenue that people will want to pay more for.

What i hate the most is the fact that i can't sell used gear in the markets and can't even give gear to a friend that isn't 100%, to me it's just stupid, ok fine they won't let me sell stuff that is not mint condition, but give to friends?! how ridiculous. oh and the repair npc won't fix my rings...really?
well anway i just sell to npcs my old gear and buy new stuff...it's a huge loss in gil but seriously i don't care anymore i know that i won't be playing this game if this system remains as is when monthly fee is aplied... to me this item condition, selling and reselling of gear is the biggest bone i have to pick with this game

Actually, the 100% deal for reselling items sounds like a good thing since that gives relevance to the player driven repairs. The part that doesn't sound good is the deal with accessories not being NPC repairable.

[tymora]

So what is your opinion on the repair system as it is? What do you believe could be improved if anything? It would be nice to hear from someone who has a bit more of a positive take on the system.

Nothing to "fix" really. Pricing is more a player problem than SE's. Having played Ultima Online where gear damage is so much more severe, FFXIV's system is nothing by comparison. Gear (used to? Been many years...) degrades gradually rather than at a fixed %, and breaks at 0% there. After a repair, maximum durability is reduced as well, so you can't fix the same item forever. This led to the practice of "disposable" gear which wasn't that fun.

If there is anything I want to add...
1) All stats should be affected by gear damage, rather than the primary 3. This will force crafters and gatherers to keep gear in good condition, rather than it being a DoW problem.
2) Gear should break and be lost if you let it hit 0%. Player's fault.

If you price G5 items below 4500g and you waited ages for repairs, don't complain about ridiculous wait times for repairs or there is a lack of crafters to fix your gear.

In general, 1k per grade is good enough for "walk-by" repairs.

[Mikita]

If there is anything I want to add...
1) All stats should be affected by gear damage, rather than the primary 3. This will force crafters and gatherers to keep gear in good condition, rather than it being a DoW problem.

Which primary 3 are affected?
I've never really paid attention to what effect damaged gear has since I repair things as soon as (or before) they go yellow... including all my DoH and DoL gear. ^^

2) Gear should break and be lost if you let it hit 0%. Player's fault.

That's a scary thought! But not a bad idea.

If you price G5 items below 4500g and you waited ages for repairs, don't complain about ridiculous wait times for repairs or there is a lack of crafters to fix your gear.

I don't really know what people are thinking sometimes.

Last night someone was standing around our Linkshell gathering area with a G5 repair request and offering 4000 gil.

We have a LOT of high rank crafters who will generally fix things for anyone to be helpful... but no one was touching this player's repair.

I wonder why?