So It's against the rules to need for another job?....

[ispano]

ah then whta you say or how you say tend to lead to believe that you infact want others to go abotu the way you do...kind of weird and still a way of being self entitled...thanks for clarifying

Mei

Everyone has a form of self entitlement to them. No one is a perfect saint. I've seen people go into dungeons 10+ times in a row only to have 0 luck getting even one item for desynth because everyone else uses need to take it for the same reason. Better in my opinion, for them to have the chance to get something with a roll than have RNG just say no and they get nothing at all.

[ispano]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hipocrite

lol

Are you sure you know what a hypocrite is? Not sure you do. If I was one, I would be asking people to roll greed for those, but not do it myself, but as I just said earlier....

So, please, do tell.

[BobbinT]

Nope. Don't have to. There's more information that would enlightened yourself. lol

[ispano]

Nope. Don't have to. There's more information that would enlightened yourself. lol

Then I can easily say you're wrong. If I have rules I feel others should follow, I always follow said rules. Which rules out being a hypocrite altogether.

Or are you perhaps one of those people who think I should stay in the group anyways, even though I disagree with how someone else is playing?

For you, from the page you linked. "It is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another."

So, again, please do tell.

[RiverTams]

Why is this even an argument when we have a need and greed system already established?

You want loot for a certain class. Play that class and just stop.
Who cares if the person that needed wants the gil/seals /cosmetic. Their reasoning is not inferior to yours.

Granted; i usually pass if a player in my party needs it. However this shouldnt be an argument. People shouldnt feel so entitled in this game.

[MeiUshu]

indeed, Ispano, that would be me, and for that reason I should feel being invested of some entitlement that because my luck is 0? that would be very selfish of me and wrong...atmas I have stopped doing them due to my luck, I am not going to say to those that are lucky to stop doing Atmas because I dont get any? uh?

I still believe you think you are entitled of having rights due to whatever reasons that you are the only one to know...but that is me..and no offence meant.

Also, there are general rules for ALL(you included), rules that you can set for yourself that nobod has to follow, and you have rules that you can set that apply to all that will associate with you provided you hold control over that. If you are in a setting where you do not hold control over loot, meaning you have not set the rules for it, the only option you have is leave...the question is do you really leave if you dont agree with who got the loot ? I am afraid I will have to say that you may do it now and then BUT you dont do it ALWAYS why ? because that would mean you never play, which then would make you an hypocrite if you say you ALWAYS do...


Mei

[ispano]

It has nothing to do with who got it. It's why they got it. People can say what they want, I have standards I hold myself to. If I feel someone I am playing with is breaking those standards, then I do not wish to play with them. And I play plenty, there are many people who feel the same way I do about needing/greeding for seals/desynth. I see many people hit greed instead of need, even though they can. Myself included.

And that's the thing, I'm the one with the problem in these situations, so I won't hesitate to eat a 30 minute timer and leave.

[Bluevann]

If they *need* that item, they should be farming the instance on the role they need it for.

I know. The line you bolded in particular stands for cases such as a ilvl100 DPS Needing an ilvl55 piece for GC points, while another ilvl50 DPS would need it for upgrades (I've seen this happen all too often in Wanderer's Palace/Amdapor Keep for example). Sometimes even going as the required class isn't enough apparently.

I have all classes up to 50, and gearing them properly is being quite a feat. My soldier's priority is going to whm, with myth priority going to blm. So I have been farming tomes in dungeons that at the same time could drop potential upgrades for those other classes (tanks, melee classes) and I'm getting quite disheartened when, even after requesting to please Greed/Need for actual use and not for points, people still will Need pieces they obviously do not require anymore.

That's why I think transforming Expert Delivery in a loot list button would help.

[Niwashi]

It depends on what they're rolling for. Usually when you SEE them with that piece as glamour, ie you know they've already gotten it. Now in this particular case they might have turned in the old one or desynthed it, but that could be on purpose too. But when it comes down to accessories and especially belts. You can't glamour belts at all. So if theirs is better already, it's a pretty clear indicator, and with acc, it's almost always a clear indicator due to them being good for GSM desynth.

Basically only if it's almost guaranteed do I ditch. I don't roll on things in low level dungeons in the first place, so someone needing an item for an alt class has no purpose, since it would use the same thing as they are currently using, meaning they are needing for the current class/job as well.

Ok, that makes some sense when you're talking about endgame gear. I was thinking about it in terms of leveling dungeons. If I'm on my level 39 Bard running Halatali, and a level 20 DoW piece drops, I may well want it for my lancer or pugilist. They'll be able to equip level 20 gear relatively soon (16 now), but it will be quite a bit longer before they can equip anything my Bard is currently wearing. So wearing good level 39 gear doesn't indicate a lack of need for good level 20 gear. (I still have the gear my archer was wearing back at level 20, but most of it isn't particularly good.)

If you're talking endgame, though, where the equippable level is the same for a wide variety of gear and it's only the Item Level that goes up, then yes, I can see how it would get easier to see if any job that can equip the dropped loot could also equip the much better item someone already has. So thanks for the explanation.

[whiskeybravo]

Yea, they need to fix those few pieces that are tank/drg gear to allow drg/lnc to roll need. Really annoyed me when leveling up DRG. Some pieces you can, but not all of them.

As far as etiquette goes, I usually just greed the low level stuff, as I only use it for spirit bonding right now. But I've always felt like if you need armor upgrades then you need to roll that class. Even that doesn't guarantee you get anything, since both mages and DoW classes roll on the same loot at low level, versus the class/job specific higher-level gear.