Please put a DPS check in a 4-man

[Eekiki]

More leniency can be given when people are leveling due to the fact people get certain abilities at different levels which can sometime make tanking hell (looking at you Raging Striking on pull Bards during Normal Brayflox with a Paladin tank).

Isn't that a BRD doing things wrong then? Shouldn't they be opening with Windbite/Venomous Bite before doing their whole Raging Strikes thing?

[Vaer]

Not necessarily true, the key difference is that a bad DPS can go a long way while a bad tank reaches a point where they just can't continue any more. Lvl 50 will see far more bad DPS the tanks but lvl 25-49 will make anyone weep with how bad some tanks can be. (lvl 15-25 doesn't even need a tank)

It's harder than before to keep hate in lower level dungeons because they buffed the DPS jobs in recent patches and to compensate for the increased enmity generation from those buffs they increased Shield Oath/Defiance enmity generation, which lower level tanks don't get for a while.

I feel bad for most likely under geared/leveled new tanks getting a party with synced DPS.

[Lithera]

There are DPS checks in many of the dungeons it's just that the 4-mans are lagging about 25 ilevels behind the average endgamer so unless the DPS are phenomenally crappy or the whole group is at minimum entry ilevel you don't realize they're checks. Final boss of Haukke HM is a DPS check that becomes painful with two fresh DPS. Diabolos is one as well. Final Tam HM as well. Had a MNK check out during that one and we wiped to Red Wedding because we couldn't keep up with the adds.

[Velthice]

I only know DD, is it the same?

Yes, the only difference being people actually still say DPS. #SNAP #ohnoyoudidnt #fromdowntown #dayum

As for the OP's idea, eh could be interesting. I'd like to see a demon wall 2.0 just to see what they'd come up with.

[JustPlainLucas]

If you want people to learn how to play their jobs, that's what Coil is there for. The game's designed around casuals leveling to 50. End game is when people are really supposed to learn their jobs. If you're frustrated with someone not knowing how to play, you shouldn't be doing Coil in PUGs anyway. Those are designed for static people who have each other's rhythms down.

[kyuven]

I only know DD, is it the same?

People don't use the acronym "DD" in this game because there's an actual dungeon that's abbreviated "DD," and because it's traditionally used to refer to a damage type (DD=direct damage abilities like Fire 1 that hit a single target, to contrast DoT which is damage over time. Since one of the classes that deals decent DoT damage ALSO deals direct damage, it's easier to just go with DPS.)

[JayCommon]

There are DPS checks in many of the dungeons it's just that the 4-mans are lagging about 25 ilevels behind the average endgamer so unless the DPS are phenomenally crappy or the whole group is at minimum entry ilevel you don't realize they're checks. Final boss of Haukke HM is a DPS check that becomes painful with two fresh DPS. Diabolos is one as well. Final Tam HM as well. Had a MNK check out during that one and we wiped to Red Wedding because we couldn't keep up with the adds.

Nailed it. There are DPS checks all over the place in this game, but most of us on the forums don't notice it because SE continues to put out "new dungeons" tuned to be beat in i70-75 gear and we are all i100+ You will never experience those checks with that type of disparity. We shouldn't have to purposely lower our gear to get the satisfaction of something tuned for lower levels, but basically SE has unofficially and inadvertantly stated many times that this is how it is going to be.

*They won't make challenging 8man dungeons because that takes away production time for creating new Raids/End-game (this was a direct quote)

I haven't ever heard an official response about higher tuned 4man dungeons, but it has been asked for countless times over the last year and the closest thing we ever got was Pharos Sirius. And PS wasn't even *tuned for better gear* it was just the first dungeon that actually made you suffer for trying to plow through phases and not dealing with mechanics properly. Annnnnnnnnnd, that got nerfed to the groundfloor level of that lighthouse.


And you want to know why?



Because the majority of the forums cried to NO END about PS.


I have a feeling we will never see it because Yoshi wants top tier gear coming from Raids/Primals/whatever is next, so making an i100 tuned 4man dungeon when the cap is i110 doesn't leave them any room to give ample rewards to entice people to even care to do it. I would, just for the challenge, but I think I am in the minority. OP I would love to see some 4man stuff where you needed i100 to pass the checks that have been getting put into dungeons, and maybe get some challenge added to the normal faceroll dungeon routine that we have gotten, but the realist in me isn't going to hold his breath.

[Warlyx]

the game use the DPS acronym too.

the issue tight dps checks is that the dps of 2 mnks is way higher than 2 brd .

if the dps check is burst , Smns will have some issues (manageable but still....)

[Alberel]

If you want people to learn how to play their jobs, that's what Coil is there for. The game's designed around casuals leveling to 50. End game is when people are really supposed to learn their jobs. If you're frustrated with someone not knowing how to play, you shouldn't be doing Coil in PUGs anyway. Those are designed for static people who have each other's rhythms down.

There are people in the 4-man level 50 dungeons that don't have a clue how to play their jobs and are usually either entirely silent or get aggressive when people offer them advice on how to play better. These players are a problem and the reason they exist is because no lower level content forces them to improve.

Saying that coil exists for people to learn how to play their jobs is a bit backwards; coil exists for people that already know how to play their jobs. The stuff outside of coil should be for them to learn it but currently there is little requiring them to do so besides coil itself. The few dungeons that do offer a challenge are tuned for fresh 50s resulting in fully geared players carrying the beginners who learn nothing from the experience as a result.

The solution would realistically be to either introduce an iLvl sync for dungeons or start tuning new dungeons for players close to the current iLvl cap.

[Curia_Regis]

the game use the DPS acronym too.

the issue tight dps checks is that the dps of 2 mnks is way higher than 2 brd .

if the dps check is burst , Smns will have some issues (manageable but still....)

SMNs can burst just fine quickly if needed. Raging > Energy drain > Fester > Rouse/Spur + Enkindle.